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KillItOnTheHighC

New thing I'm doing for state this year

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So I have a new idea for what I'm gonna do in celebration of KMEA State this year but it's gonna take a lot of help from you guys, so I'm posting this in advance just in case so we're on the same page here and you can think about it. Probably gonna repost in August or September when we get closer to it too just to refresh everyone's mind on it. Right now I just need to gauge response to the idea and brainstorm ideas and rules. Anyways:

 

So the idea is that while state finals is going on, I get a few people from here and we all judge them, as in caption judging exactly as it is on the KMEA sheets. Since there is no training required and the manual is online (and thankfully fairly easy to read), the people helping me could each pick a caption, do the one or two pages of reading to know the criteria exactly the way that it is presented to the judges, and give our best shot at doing what we often criticize after basically every competition.

 

Judge Requirements:

1) MOST IMPORTANT: You have to watch EVERY FINALIST BAND. This is without a doubt not only the hardest, but the most important, because then it's hard to do it exactly right. If you want to do this, please absolutely try your hardest to see every band because it's hard to do a show justice that you haven't seen the performance you're judging. (If you're watching the stream, this counts. In fact it's a little easier because you can just sprint to the bathroom and back.)

 

Recommendations:

1) Take a bathroom break beforehand. Trust me.

2) If you're there live, bring snacks. Lots of them. Same as above: It's a 5 hour competition. You'll need it.

3) Even better, make sure to eat a BIG dinner beforehand.

4) Try to lay any bias you can aside. What I mean by this is: Try to think of what you think should be scored above something else beforehand, but don't go into the competition thinking you already know what you're going to put down, because you don't want your results to be affected by that.

 

If you feel like this is a good idea, tell me. If you don't, go ahead and lay it on me as well. Any suggestions, shoot. I want to hear everything you think.

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I have a suggestion to maybe modify this a little bit. I like the idea of having multiple people on here "judge" these bands, because it's just like polling: the more people we ask, the better the representation will be of where a band actually is according to the audience. Therefore, it would be great to have no limit to the number of people who can submit their opinions; anyone who wants to weigh in can do so. Also, if there are enough people who are interested in participating, then we could even guard against the scores being skewed by eliminating the 1-3 scores on the high end and low end, depending on how many people submit a full set. That's how they do it in the Olympics.

 

Also, there is some merit in the idea of judging bands not with scores, but with ordinals, the way UIL does it in Texas. The only difference would be that we would be judging all 20 bands against one another, and the class "winners" according to the group would be the ones with the lowest ordinal totals.

 

Example:

 

Class X

  1. Band 1 - 3, 7, 5, 8, 3 = 26
  2. Band 2 - 7, 6, 9, 10, 8 = 40
  3. Band 3 - 12, 10, 15, 14, 16 = 77
  4. Band 4 - 16, 17, 19, 15, 18 = 85

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I have a suggestion to maybe modify this a little bit. I like the idea of having multiple people on here "judge" these bands, because it's just like polling: the more people we ask, the better the representation will be of where a band actually is according to the audience. Therefore, it would be great to have no limit to the number of people who can submit their opinions; anyone who wants to weigh in can do so. Also, if there are enough people who are interested in participating, then we could even guard against the scores being skewed by eliminating the 1-3 scores on the high end and low end, depending on how many people submit a full set. That's how they do it in the Olympics.

 

Also, there is some merit in the idea of judging bands not with scores, but with ordinals, the way UIL does it in Texas. The only difference would be that we would be judging all 20 bands against one another, and the class "winners" according to the group would be the ones with the lowest ordinal totals.

 

Example:

 

Class X

  1. Band 1 - 3, 7, 5, 8, 3 = 26
  2. Band 2 - 7, 6, 9, 10, 8 = 40
  3. Band 3 - 12, 10, 15, 14, 16 = 77
  4. Band 4 - 16, 17, 19, 15, 18 = 85

I agree that I'd love to gather as many people as possible, but I'd have to see a pretty substantial amount of people that fall 1) are willing to do this, and 2) are able to commit to seeing every band come Finals night. One idea that was floated around when I brought this up to someon who wants to be involved was having multiple judging panels or if there's some number of people like 8 that want to join, letting one person do both performance captions so that you have two panels of 4 judges, or if there's five people on one panel, combine the Visual Performance captions because together they'd equal the 20 points all other captions have.

 

I can also see the merits of using an ordinal system, but in my eyes I can't really justify it in this case for the specific reason that one of the things I'd like to measure in this is how close we are to the judges' opinions on a show. For example if the Music P1 judge on our panel scores Band X two points lower than the actual judge, I think it would be a phenomenal discussion to have about why our judge disagrees with KMEA's.

 

If anyone disagrees, I'm well open to discussion over it.

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I would like to add to both Tim and McLovin:

 

I really hope you can participate. I think you would be absolutely magnificent judges. So far, I have prospective judges interested in Music Effect, Visual Effect, and Visual Performance, and several people who have told me that if they were able to watch all bands they would absolutely participate, which I love because it means that in the future maybe more people can be involved.

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If you want to do something interesting to compare your judging to the KMEA judges, try this. Record taped commentary, then transcribe your comments. How do they balance positive/negative? Do you spend a lot of the time focusing on just one bullet of the sheet or is your commentary balanced across the entire sheet? After that, (if you can find access to it...) listen to that same caption's tape and compare.

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If you want to do something interesting to compare your judging to the KMEA judges, try this. Record taped commentary, then transcribe your comments. How do they balance positive/negative? Do you spend a lot of the time focusing on just one bullet of the sheet or is your commentary balanced across the entire sheet? After that, (if you can find access to it...) listen to that same caption's tape and compare.

That would be absolutely interesting if we could pull it off. I would be very much up for that, but only for people who want to. I don't want to force anyone to do that, even if it sounds really fun.

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If you want to do something interesting to compare your judging to the KMEA judges, try this. Record taped commentary, then transcribe your comments. How do they balance positive/negative? Do you spend a lot of the time focusing on just one bullet of the sheet or is your commentary balanced across the entire sheet? After that, (if you can find access to it...) listen to that same caption's tape and compare.

Are you saying you want people in the stands to speak into a recorder while Finals is going on?

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Are you saying you want people in the stands to speak into a recorder while Finals is going on?

 

My thoughts exactly. There's already plenty of rude parents at finals. Let's not do something that the vast majority of us on here know not to do. MSBA have been known to have judges in the stands. Boy, is that annoying.

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My thoughts exactly. There's already plenty of rude parents at finals. Let's not do something that the vast majority of us on here know not to do. MSBA have been known to have judges in the stands. Boy, is that annoying.

Between Estill county train whistles, Lafayette screams, and "ROCK MY FACE OFF!!!" you probably wouldn't be able to hear yourself talk anyway.

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Between Estill county train whistles, Lafayette screams, and "ROCK MY FACE OFF!!!" you probably wouldn't be able to hear yourself talk anyway.

 

Estills and Lafayettes are a spirit thing. I understand those. Russell's parent is just annoying and blatant disregard for others around them. Especially when they don't enunciate!

 

Notes could work, or just print off the sheets and write notes on those. Either/or. Everyone has access to the judges handbook. I believe it's been posted a few times on here somewhere.

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Estills and Lafayettes are a spirit thing. I understand those. Russell's parent is just annoying and blatant disregard for others around them. Especially when they don't enunciate!

 

Notes could work, or just print off the sheets and write notes on those. Either/or. Everyone has access to the judges handbook. I believe it's been posted a few times on here somewhere.

It gets posted like 5 times every season.

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If you had a recorder right in front of your mouth, you could speak quietly into it and it wouldn't be heard by the people beside you. You couldn't be shouting or anything! Don't be one of those judges!

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If you had a recorder right in front of your mouth, you could speak quietly into it and it wouldn't be heard by the people beside you. You couldn't be shouting or anything! Don't be one of those judges!

 

Not if you're around one of the groups listed above.

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Let me preface this by saying that a lot of people think I'm a weirdo for saying things like this, but they misunderstand; more than anything, it's because I'm a perfectionist and want to be as good as I can be at whatever I do. If I were to agree to something like this, I would want to study the terminology of a particular circuit's judging sheets, I would want to practice doing this with bands throughout the season, and I would want to have the ability to give the best, most constructive commentary possible for an amateur like me. That requires a lot of time, effort, money (going to competitions), and preparation. Quite frankly, I'm not sure whether I have the energy to commit to that sort of task with all the work I'm getting from my two jobs right now. I'll have to see how I'm feeling in a few months.

 

And they're right, if I were physically attending finals, I wouldn't want to be "that guy" constantly talking through a band's performance, and especially not a finalist's.

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Let me preface this by saying that a lot of people think I'm a weirdo for saying things like this, but they misunderstand; more than anything, it's because I'm a perfectionist and want to be as good as I can be at whatever I do. If I were to agree to something like this, I would want to study the terminology of a particular circuit's judging sheets, I would want to practice doing this with bands throughout the season, and I would want to have the ability to give the best, most constructive commentary possible for an amateur like me. That requires a lot of time, effort, money (going to competitions), and preparation. Quite frankly, I'm not sure whether I have the energy to commit to that sort of task with all the work I'm getting from my two jobs right now. I'll have to see how I'm feeling in a few months.

 

And they're right, if I were physically attending finals, I wouldn't want to be "that guy" constantly talking through a band's performance, and especially not a finalist's.

I can respect all of that. And I'm going to bring this up again when competitions are in full swing. A few suggestions I could have would be maybe in your spare time try judging a well-shot video. Comparing your caption's scores against what you see and thinking where you may agree or disagree with them.

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I would like to add to both Tim and McLovin:

 

I really hope you can participate. I think you would be absolutely magnificent judges. So far, I have prospective judges interested in Music Effect, Visual Effect, and Visual Performance, and several people who have told me that if they were able to watch all bands they would absolutely participate, which I love because it means that in the future maybe more people can be involved.

 

Looking at my schedule, I think WKU has a home game on state finals and I don't know what time the game will be, so it will be unlikely that I will be able to show up. Just got an email from our marching band director a few days ago and I just read it. However, if something changes I would be down for it still.

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Let me preface this by saying that a lot of people think I'm a weirdo for saying things like this, but they misunderstand; more than anything, it's because I'm a perfectionist and want to be as good as I can be at whatever I do. If I were to agree to something like this, I would want to study the terminology of a particular circuit's judging sheets, I would want to practice doing this with bands throughout the season, and I would want to have the ability to give the best, most constructive commentary possible for an amateur like me. That requires a lot of time, effort, money (going to competitions), and preparation. Quite frankly, I'm not sure whether I have the energy to commit to that sort of task with all the work I'm getting from my two jobs right now. I'll have to see how I'm feeling in a few months.

 

And they're right, if I were physically attending finals, I wouldn't want to be "that guy" constantly talking through a band's performance, and especially not a finalist's.

 

I get this completely. Doing what I do with marching band I go over every score sheet time and time again. Every band I watch I’m judging and making mental notes on what they could do better and what they already do well. Practicing this when watching every band allows me to better communicate how individuals can get better and fit into the whole picture of the group.

 

I wish I had time to commit to mock judging events with you guys but I’m insanely glad that I don’t.

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