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AAAAA East Regional - Tates Creek 10/20

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Just now, JacobTheMelloGuy said:

Ryle's visual performance spread is blowing my mind. What the heck was going on in that press box?

As well as MCs!  Even though they won it’s still startling how two judges could be on two different pages. 

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3 minutes ago, lchsmallet1990 said:

This is the kind of scoring that makes no sense and is a hallmark of KMEA. There should be some sort of consistencies. I can’t help but wonder if these judges are qualified to make decisions at the state level. It’s not fair to the kids. 

All judges are provided the same criteria and points of comparison, as well as outlined subcaption point spread guidelines, which are now much more prominent on the sheets. If these are truly followed, some wider-than-we’re-used-to-seeing spreads will likely occur, which can make results a bit wacky.

It is impossible to remove all personal experience of the judges, and what they emphasize most of the provided criteria. I would hope it would always be an even balance, but sometimes it’s just not. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wonder if the new VP sheet has caused some of the disparities, too. Did all judges TRULY adjust to the new criteria?

Regardless, congratulations to everyone who performed today! The excitement of the State Championship is underway! 😊😊

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2 minutes ago, JacobTheMelloGuy said:

Ryle's visual performance spread is blowing my mind. What the heck was going on in that press box?

What has always gone on in KMEA. Politics and favors. I was a student from North East KY in the early 2000’s and we never received consistent scores. Look at 3A East regionals 2005. One judge gave the second place band (Bourbon County) 7th. 

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1 minute ago, lchsmallet1990 said:

What has always gone on in KMEA. Politics and favors. I was a student from North East KY in the early 2000’s and we never received consistent scores. Look at 3A East regionals 2005. One judge gave the second place band (Bourbon County) 7th. 

A second place band getting 7th in a caption isn’t even surprising in kmea. Not even noteworthy at all sadly.

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7 minutes ago, BRASS MONKEY said:

Can’t help but wonder if there is a subjective rather objective element to the scoring. 

I think there always is as they are judging artistic products. Marching Band is so unique in that the groups are competing athletes like a football or basketball team, but then with the added twist of design and performance.

Hard to judge. But that’s why we all love it so.

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It is what it is. Quarterfinals are always weird. This regional is absolutely stacked. The 7th place band (Eastern) would’ve probably came in 2nd in the West. 

These visual scores are whacky but I’m not going to put too much stock into it. Tate’s Creek has a very low box. Next weekend, the judges will be able to see everything that’s going on in a show much more easily. I feel this will benefit Lafayette and MC greatly.

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20 minutes ago, Captain Crunch said:

A second place band getting 7th in a caption isn’t even surprising in kmea. Not even noteworthy at all sadly.

Agreed! 

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I feel like people should just leave the scores alone and stop favoring bands!! It is what it is and I'm tired of this feed consisting of "excuses" on why the visual scores are what they are. You cant be serious that you are blaming the score on a "low press box". Just because the scores weren't what you expected dosent mean you should make excuses for it. I think today was good and I only expect better results for state...not trying to stir anything up but we should just be happy and appreciate all of the hard work these bands put into their shows!!! 

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Today was great but I had forgotten how quiet bands sound on this field. It's so far away from the stands. Just always strange but Tates Creek held a great regional for all of us so thank you. Also, one their band members appeared to have gotten sick or hurt during their performance and had to be taken by ambulance so positive vibes to them that all is well!

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Just now, fanofband said:

Wind likely affected sound, as well.

Yep but all those kids were troopers and bless all the parents sitting and holding the props from behind for most bands...they the MVPs lol

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This may not be a popular opinion because judging (and especially inconsistencies with judging) is a polarizing subject that always evokes strong emotional reactions... But my big takeaway from the disparity in the visual judging at this regional is simply that there is that much parity. Judges at the regionals and semifinals levels have been encouraged in the past to exaggerate spreads between their bands, the idea being that the exaggerated spreads would ensure that the correct bands advance. Therefore, with the level of parity we saw in AAAAA East today, there will be a lot of disagreement among the judges, which will affect the scores somewhat.

As for the performance ordinals being so far apart for a given band... We all know that there are a plethora of things to be taken into account in the performance captions. With visual, you can watch marching forms, spacing, lines, diagonals, uniformity of motion, guard work, horn angles, body angles, posture, etc. With music, you can listen to brass, woodwinds, battery, front ensemble, solos, solis, dynamics, tone quality, balance, blende, timbre, flow, stylistic interpretation, portrayal of emotion, etc. So even though it looks a little weird as numbers on a sheet, it can definitely be possible for professionals to disagree so widely and both be right. That's actually the reason why KMEA uses 2 performance judges for each caption: so that no one judge holds too much power with which to determine a band's fate in a caption that covers so many things.

Do I think there's some room for argument that we need to divide these performance captions into individual and ensemble? Absolutely. But I don't believe it's as much of an issue as many of us on here are making it out to be.

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17 minutes ago, Tim said:

This may not be a popular opinion because judging (and especially inconsistencies with judging) is a polarizing subject that always evokes strong emotional reactions... But my big takeaway from the disparity in the visual judging at this regional is simply that there is that much parity. Judges at the regionals and semifinals levels have been encouraged in the past to exaggerate spreads between their bands, the idea being that the exaggerated spreads would ensure that the correct bands advance. Therefore, with the level of parity we saw in AAAAA East today, there will be a lot of disagreement among the judges, which will affect the scores somewhat.

As for the performance ordinals being so far apart for a given band... We all know that there are a plethora of things to be taken into account in the performance captions. With visual, you can watch marching forms, spacing, lines, diagonals, uniformity of motion, guard work, horn angles, body angles, posture, etc. With music, you can listen to brass, woodwinds, battery, front ensemble, solos, solis, dynamics, tone quality, balance, blende, timbre, flow, stylistic interpretation, portrayal of emotion, etc. So even though it looks a little weird as numbers on a sheet, it can definitely be possible for professionals to disagree so widely and both be right. That's actually the reason why KMEA uses 2 performance judges for each caption: so that no one judge holds too much power with which to determine a band's fate in a caption that covers so many things.

Do I think there's some room for argument that we need to divide these performance captions into individual and ensemble? Absolutely. But I don't believe it's as much of an issue as many of us on here are making it out to be.

It probably really isn’t that big a deal just something that stood out to me. Especially when the same disparities did not occur out West. As already said, it is what it is. 

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There isn't nearly as much parity in the west as there was at this regional. That's why the ordinals were more consistent. No offense to the bands who competed at AAAAA west, but there's a real possibility that only 2 of them will place any higher than 10th at semifinals.

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6 hours ago, BRASS MONKEY said:

The visual scores are sooo confusing.  Ryle and MC had the biggest margins in Visual Performance. How does this happen if the judges had the same training?  Can’t help but wonder if there is a subjective rather objective element to the scoring. 

The judges don’t have the same training  In fact, they may have no training.  I believe Visual Judge 2 is an active DCI judge

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On these videos, it looks like a lot of bands, and especially color guards, were really struggling with the wind. So was someone there tell what you would have placed them and how they did live? 

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8 hours ago, kybandfossil said:

The judges don’t have the same training  In fact, they may have no training.  I believe Visual Judge 2 is an active DCI judge

If “Bowers” is Michelle Bowers, then yes she is a DCI judge. 

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Here are my thoughts:

1. Madison Central

Much better than when I saw them at their home show a few weeks ago. Their sound is solid and the show is very entertaining. The drill is unique and it pretty much works. The ballad is breathtaking live, I t’s one of my favorite moments from a Kentucky band in some time. The closer is my least favorite part, but that’s a common theme this year for me. I’ve said since first seeing this show that they were in strong contention to win state, but I still think they’re the (slight) underdog of the three.

2. Lafayette

It was my first time seeing them live and it was underwhelming. From theit first note, the brass was out of whack. I went back and watched the video to make sure I wasn’t remembering it harshly, but there were a lot of raw sounds and people sticking out. The beginning of the opener and the entirety of the closer were the worst sound wise. I also felt like the opener was dragging and needed to be speed up to add some energy to the show. If it weren’t for the wind blowing the covers off their front drops early, I think this would have been the first performance were all their props and tricks worked perfectly, which is a good thing. The transitions are still awkward. I know I’m really harping right now, but it felt like a much weaker sound than I’ve heard on videos all season. If they really clean this week, I’d say they still have a solid shot at winning, but the wall they have built around themselves all season has cracked. Side note: I did think they’d at the very least win one visual performance caption, their lines and straight and their feet are flawless. I also don’t see them losing visual effect next week no matter what else happens, the show is a treat for the eyes.

3. Ryle

They were the obvious best of the rest yesterday. While I think the show design is kinda strange, I like it and it works. They are in a good position to nab a finals slot again, and I kinda hope they do to be honest. A lot of times a taste of success really propels a band forward, and I’d love for Ryle to be the next growing force in 5A. They are definitely better than they were at quarters last year, but now they are expected to be one of the big fish and we’ll see if they can deliver on Saturday.

4. Dunbar

This show is really coming together. They lose their sound at some points, but unlike last year they sound balanced as opposed to hollow. Gaurd is fantastic and I think handled the wind better than most groups. The voiceovers work and are a welcome addition to the show. I don’t think every aspect of the show jives together, and that coupled with their slightly lower performance level compared to Ryle makes me think they’re a less likely finalist. They still have a great shot at it though, and if they clean all week and give a knock out on Saturday afternoon, there’s a darn good chance they’ll be performing at night.

5. Eastern

I was surprised they placed lower than fifth, but such is life. I’m a fan of the show and I think it has a certain “it” factor to it, but they aren’t performing as well as Dunbar or Ryle. They are looking good, imo the best since they made finals in 2011, but they have a lot of work to do if they want to make finals. They were my prediction last week, but after seeing these groups live, I don’t think it’s in the cards. Last year Ryle proved that anything is possible though.

6. Henry Clay

I haven’t been on this hype train this year, nor have I understood it. I think Henry clay is great and they have really become something special the past few years, but they are definitely below some of the other contenders right now. Their two biggest detriments to me are their sound and their visual program. They can change one of those things this week, and it happens to be the more important thing, so their chances are still alive, but I think it’s a long shot bid. I know this band is VERY hungry for that finals spot though, and part of me is rooting for them, but they have more to overcome than their competition right now.

7. Bullitt East

I was definitely surprised with this group! They showed up to play. I admit I just don’t like the show, it hurt my eyes. All the white makes it hard to focus on anything from where I was sitting. Maybe that’s why I had a slightly different opinion of them than the judges. I thought they’d be very close to the finals bubble bands, but still fun irony behind. I am delighted for them though! What an accomplishment! I hope they become a bigger player in the years to come.

8. Tate’s Creek

TC is a good band that would have very easily placed higher than 8th at any other regional in the state. That’s all I’ll say about that.

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I saw videos today and every band did a great job!! These kids have worked so hard and it’s exciting to watch! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Whoever makes the final four spots will be deserving! 

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