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23 hours ago, MikeZ said:

Judging...grumble, grumble, grumble

Stadium...grumble, grumble, grumble

Weather...grumble, grumble, grumble

 

Easily my 4th favorite day of the year.

1. DCI prelims day

2/3. Thur/Fri opening of NCAA tourney

4. Day after KMEA semis/finals where everyone complains about literally everything.

 

Z

Clearing time today to read about conspiracy theories and judging.

people complain about judging all season long then,the day after finals  people suddenly jump on the wagon of "just because your band didn't win you think the judges were wrong". oh, the double standard!

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I think the key issue here is that KMEA judges are majority unqualified, that judging at semifinals is so incorrect in the fact that you’re just supposed to find four finalist bands, and not necessarily care about the scores of the rest of the groups is how you get these extremely stupid gaps between the same caption, just different judges. 7th and 15th, or 3rd and 12th, it just makes no sense how you can do that to a band when the rest of the panel collectively agrees they’re a higher placing band, finalist quality or not. It’s just annoying, it favors bands that can throw tons of random garbage on the field or play the loudest in their class. No shade against any groups in particular but groups that make their major props light up or have extremely loud mic’d solos and features while the rest of the band does some sort of dance, those kinds of things put a band in finals even if the other groups clearly outperform them. I’m sorry, but no one can tell me that Madville truly deserved to be in Finals this year. Sure, they judges put them in and good for them, they got their highest placement in several years. But their show was easily outperformed and outshined by Grant and South Oldham to me. Like yeah, sure, I’ve been pushing for both of those bands to be in Finals for some time now, but this time I really think that they seriously should have been in over Madville. But that’s doesn’t matter, they’ve got flashy uniform changes and props, and they’ve got the name. 

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Here are the placements in my view:

Class A

  1. Beechwood
  2. Murray
  3. Washington Co.
  4. Williamstown

Class AA 

  1. Estil
  2. Adair
  3. Glasgow
  4. Garrard

Class AAA

  1. Bourbon
  2. Russell
  3. Harrison
  4. Taylor

Class AAAA

  1. Anderson
  2. Madisonville NH
  3. Hopkinsville
  4. South Laurel

Class AAAAA

  1. Madison Central
  2. Lafayette
  3. North Hardin
  4. Dunbar

Overall, I thought that the 1A-3A judges did a better job than the 4A-5A judges at getting the correct placements. The 4A and 5A judges seemed to be swayed by the flashy shows, and effect was given too much of an emphasis in my opinion. In 1A, I definitely thought this was going to be a two man race between Beechwood and Murray. I am biased towards Beechwood which is why I gave them the edge, but I did not see them in third. The top 3 were all within 2 points of each other, and the judges had very different ordinal placements which may indicates how close it was. In 2A, I enjoyed both Estill and Adair a lot, and I thought Estill was cleaner musically and visually. However, Adair put on a good show and I had no problem with them winning. Judges nailed Class 3A, I agreed exactly with their placements. Congrats to Bourbon especially with a new director, that is very impressive! Class 4A was the one that I had most disagreement. South Laurel's show was very well designed, but was lacking musically. Nice to see new champions, but I thought Anderson was much stronger. For 5A, this was my favorite Lafayette show they have ever done. Are they doing BOA? Because they need to, this show would dominate there. However, Madison Central was my 5A champion. Their execution last night was phenomenal and I thought they were going to win by a fair margin. 

Congrats to everyone, it was a great State Finals and there were so many entertaining bands! Really enjoyed it!

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4 minutes ago, Chandelier said:

I think the key issue here is that KMEA judges are majority unqualified, that judging at semifinals is so incorrect in the fact that you’re just supposed to find four finalist bands, and not necessarily care about the scores of the rest of the groups is how you get these extremely stupid gaps between the same caption, just different judges. 7th and 15th, or 3rd and 12th, it just makes no sense how you can do that to a band when the rest of the panel collectively agrees they’re a higher placing band, finalist quality or not. It’s just annoying, it favors bands that can throw tons of random garbage on the field or play the loudest in their class. No shade against any groups in particular but groups that make their major props light up or have extremely loud mic’d solos and features while the rest of the band does some sort of dance, those kinds of things put a band in finals even if the other groups clearly outperform them. I’m sorry, but no one can tell me that Madville truly deserved to be in Finals this year. Sure, they judges put them in and good for them, they got their highest placement in several years. But their show was easily outperformed and outshined by Grant and South Oldham to me. Like yeah, sure, I’ve been pushing for both of those bands to be in Finals for some time now, but this time I really think that they seriously should have been in over Madville. But that’s doesn’t matter, they’ve got flashy uniform changes and props, and they’ve got the name. 

I would argue the judges this year are some of the most qualified we’ve ever had. Go look them up. 

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5 minutes ago, Brass33 said:

I would argue the judges this year are some of the most qualified we’ve ever had. Go look them up. 

Even when judges are qualified, their interpretation of the sheets is so varied (and/or the points of emphasis on the sheets are so unclear) that we still see such HUGE swings. Semifinals is always a clear example of this. 

One could argue that quarterfinals are even worse, as chances of finding 60 qualified judges for one day are pretty slim.

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4 hours ago, bigbandgeek said:

I'm not going to get into the whole "Band X got hosed", but I think one thing we need to see is some consistency.

I mean, there has to be some way to get some baseline for scoring.  Look at BOA and DCI, you never see wild crazy jumps or huge disparities between captions.  Yes, they are completely different organizations, but they don't have bands improving a ridiculous amount in a 6 hour period or 1 judge having a school 5-7 places worse in one caption than they were in another caption.  There's an real issue here.  It happens every year and it's getting worse.

My personal opinion is that they need to quit bringing in "prestigious" judges from DCI corps and other out of state bands and go with judges who have judged KMEA all year.  On top of that, walk those judges through some scoring baselines.  Make sure that all judges are looking for similar things and try to tone down the subjective side of it.  (i.e. in visuals, posture and feet are more important than props and gimmicks)

I don't know.  I'm still flummoxed.  Keep the down votes to a minimum, I have tender toes.

BOA is the same exact way. No one person is going to judge a band the exact same way. Look at recaps from BOA over the years, you will see it’s just as inconsistent.

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How ironic how some of the people who think we are “grumblers about the stadium, judges, etc” are involved with programs that have bailed out of KMEA already

Edited by kybandfossil
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8 minutes ago, kybandfossil said:

How ironic how some of the people who think we are “grumblers about the stadium, judges, etc” are involved with programs that have bailed out of KMEA already

 

C8735EDF-79E4-4CD2-866F-EA43F04ABE38.jpeg

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i must say, i respectfully disagree with those who are saying “oh just because your favorite band didn’t win doesn’t mean somethings wrong” i would feel differently if just one of two people were saying anderson or hoptown should’ve won. but looking at everything overall, the judges seemed truly swayed by a flashy show. my heart aches for anderson and hoptwon. i noticed a few of their guard coming together, crying and hugging with one another after the results. i hope next year they get what they rightfully deserve 

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39 minutes ago, ULTrumpet14 said:

Here are the placements in my view:

Class A

  1. Beechwood
  2. Murray
  3. Washington Co.
  4. Williamstown

Class AA 

  1. Estil
  2. Adair
  3. Glasgow
  4. Garrard

Class AAA

  1. Bourbon
  2. Russell
  3. Harrison
  4. Taylor

Class AAAA

  1. Anderson
  2. Madisonville NH
  3. Hopkinsville
  4. South Laurel

Class AAAAA

  1. Madison Central
  2. Lafayette
  3. North Hardin
  4. Dunbar

Overall, I thought that the 1A-3A judges did a better job than the 4A-5A judges at getting the correct placements. The 4A and 5A judges seemed to be swayed by the flashy shows, and effect was given too much of an emphasis in my opinion. In 1A, I definitely thought this was going to be a two man race between Beechwood and Murray. I am biased towards Beechwood which is why I gave them the edge, but I did not see them in third. The top 3 were all within 2 points of each other, and the judges had very different ordinal placements which may indicates how close it was. In 2A, I enjoyed both Estill and Adair a lot, and I thought Estill was cleaner musically and visually. However, Adair put on a good show and I had no problem with them winning. Judges nailed Class 3A, I agreed exactly with their placements. Congrats to Bourbon especially with a new director, that is very impressive! Class 4A was the one that I had most disagreement. South Laurel's show was very well designed, but was lacking musically. Nice to see new champions, but I thought Anderson was much stronger. For 5A, this was my favorite Lafayette show they have ever done. Are they doing BOA? Because they need to, this show would dominate there. However, Madison Central was my 5A champion. Their execution last night was phenomenal and I thought they were going to win by a fair margin. 

Congrats to everyone, it was a great State Finals and there were so many entertaining bands! Really enjoyed it!

The show did do well in BOA

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20 minutes ago, kybandfossil said:

How ironic how some of the people who think we are “grumblers about the stadium, judges, etc” are involved with programs that have bailed out of KMEA already

I'm involved with Campbell, but I don't know that I speak for the program. With that said, Campbell will occasionally compete at state... It's just not an every year thing for us. Committing to compete at state can lock you into 4 KMEA weekends...2 regular season shows, quarterfinals, then possibly semis. Some years our schedule allows us to do KMEA some years are more of a challenge.

 

No grumbling here...

 

Z

Low man on the totem pole with the Campbell County Band of Pride.

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Great finals last night! That Madison Central Band will be busting at the seams next year with all the kids they’ll have! 

Congratulations to Lafayette and North Hardin! Great concert and marching programs. They’re students do well at All State, with numbers in the 20s and 30s from public schools. Certainly making sure the center of the wheel is music education. 

 

Side note: there should be a policy for abrupt interruptions that could damage student performance. For sure. 

 

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2 minutes ago, MikeZ said:

I'm involved with Campbell, but I don't know that I speak for the program. With that said, Campbell will occasionally compete at state... It's just not an every year thing for us. Committing to compete at state can lock you into 4 KMEA weekends...2 regular season shows, quarterfinals, then possibly semis. Some years our schedule allows us to do KMEA some years are more of a challenge.

 

No grumbling here...

 

Z

Low man on the totem pole with the Campbell County Band of Pride.

Unless you pull a north Hardin and compete at 2 shows in Louisville the same weekend. Or 2 shows close together in general. You could do those in the same day. Then you're freed up a weekend.

Now logistically that doesn't work for every group but the concern is reasonable.

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10 hours ago, Colt45 said:

UK sucked. The parking for the bands was a disaster. I would rather go back to Louisville and stay there forever. 

 

2 hours ago, LongTimeBandMan said:

No.

 

2 hours ago, Colt45 said:

Please do tell me why I'm wrong when looking at it through the eyes of the bands. I have no idea about the fan experience and to be honest don't care about that part. From a logistical point of view Commonwealth was a nightmare for the bands. There was NO organization. The poor UK students had no idea where to park anyone and even if they knew where to put them, there was NO room. You had bands buried trying to get to their show, with other bands trying to unload equipment at the same time. UK did not even clear the lots of cars so the truck drivers had to maneuver around random cars sitting in their designated area. UL has a parking area for the trucks and buses that could host 3 Finals events at the same time. From the actual bands' viewpoint, Commonwealth did not stack up. 

This is the first time in recent memory that KMEA finals has been held at UK. The issues they had are all fixable. Lesson learned, better logistics in band/prop/equipment staging. Those are all things that can be hammered out relatively easily.  Parking and stadium design at UK beat UL. Acoustics is much better at UK than UL.

You can't fix terrible acoustics and UPS aircraft flybys every 90 seconds at UL.  UL is the worst venue for marching performance, imo. WKU is OK, but you have to deal with the train and less-than-ideal parking.

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1 minute ago, LongTimeBandMan said:

 

 

This is the first time in recent memory that KMEA finals has been held at UK. The issues they had are all fixable. Lesson learned, better logistics in band/prop/equipment staging. Those are all things that can be hammered out relatively easily.  Parking and stadium design at UK beat UL. Acoustics is much better at UK than UL.

You can't fix terrible acoustics and UPS aircraft flybys every 90 seconds at UL.  UL is the worst venue for marching performance, imo. WKU is OK, but you have to deal with the train and less-than-ideal parking.

If someone made finals on a show about airplanes Uofl would be perfect lol 

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1 minute ago, LongTimeBandMan said:

You can't fix terrible acoustics and UPS aircraft flybys every 90 seconds at UL.  UL is the worst venue for marching performance, imo. WKU is OK, but you have to deal with the train and less-than-ideal parking.

And constantly flies over or practice field at Manual, on top of train tracks right by it. We literally have to stop talking anytime one or the other (sometimes both) goes by. Also, this takes away from what little rehearsal time we have anyway. 2 days a week for 2.5 hours. I say we do alright for what we have to work with lol

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5 minutes ago, Tinkerbell06 said:

Great finals last night! That Madison Central Band will be busting at the seams next year with all the kids they’ll have! 

Congratulations to Lafayette and North Hardin! Great concert and marching programs. They’re students do well at All State, with numbers in the 20s and 30s from public schools. Certainly making sure the center of the wheel is music education. 

 

Side note: there should be a policy for abrupt interruptions that could damage student performance. For sure. 

 

You can’t really brush safety to the side for a marching band competition, even if the incident wasn’t affecting us.

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9 minutes ago, MikeZ said:

I'm involved with Campbell, but I don't know that I speak for the program. With that said, Campbell will occasionally compete at state... It's just not an every year thing for us. Committing to compete at state can lock you into 4 KMEA weekends...2 regular season shows, quarterfinals, then possibly semis. Some years our schedule allows us to do KMEA some years are more of a challenge.

 

No grumbling here...

 

Z

Low man on the totem pole with the Campbell County Band of Pride.

I get it, and Don't blame you at all! It's all about the best experience for your kids. If committing to 4 weekends in a class in which end-of-year results are pretty much a foregone conclusion can be topped by a BOA weekend or 2, with some MSBA mixed in, then so be it. I'd like to see more of Campbell, as I'm a fan, especially of their percussion...but I get it.

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All 20 Finalists came from bottom 1/2 of draw.  Lesson to be learned is, if you want to make Finals,  you better place in the top 4 at Quarters

Edited by kybandfossil
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44 minutes ago, DCI Guy said:

BOA is the same exact way. No one person is going to judge a band the exact same way. Look at recaps from BOA over the years, you will see it’s just as inconsistent.

Look at the Recap from St. Louis this weekend.  Over 2 days, 74 bands, 4 different music GE judges and the largest point gap was 2.6.  

As a band in KMEA it’s impossible to tell which scores are actually valid in determining how you truly stand.  Simply adding a Chief Judge in the box would help.

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2 minutes ago, kybandfossil said:

All 20 Finalists came from bottom 1/2 of draw.  Lesson to be learned is, if you want to make Finals,  you better place in the top 4 at Quarters

I’ll just give 2 examples of many:

 

Boyle Co. 2012

Calloway Co. 2017

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12 minutes ago, anonbandfan said:

You can’t really brush safety to the side for a marching band competition, even if the incident wasn’t affecting us.

What? I’m saying either students are allowed to restart a movement without penalty or give a brief pause to get mojo back. Let kids collect themselves

 

I’m not sure what your response meant, but figured we’re not really talking about the same solution 

Edited by Tinkerbell06

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2 minutes ago, ThePal said:

I’ll just give 2 examples of many:

 

Boyle Co. 2012

Calloway Co. 2017

I bet after you give me the complete list, it will be less than 10 percent.  That’s 140 Finals slots available since 2012.  Like I said, you better finish top 4 in Quarters

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