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11 hours ago, bdit said:

When any of these are invited to perform at Midwest numerous times (Laf hasn’t been in over 20 years), come talk to me.

And yes, I’ve heard every one of these top ensembles. Nothing against any of them (although Mad Central is not the same caliber presently as they were under Barton). Central was close to being invited a little before he retired.

But none of these are in the same league as NH on the stage. Again, jmo.

 

Agreed.  NH on a stage is about as good as it gets in KY! I still prefer them also overall on a field but last year they didnt seem the same caliber I've always saw from them and I actually liked Lafayette better last year as a total package. I'm not ready to say if I think MC really sounds better or not before and after Barton. Jaggie is headed into his 4th year ( can we really count this year though lol) so even if they dont sound as good as a Barton band I think they are well on their way and I definitely prefer the Jaggie shows over the Barton shows.  But musically, NH is the clear winner for me ensemble wise in the state. 

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WGI has sent out a survey to all directors about the upcoming season. The apparent issue is that venues  (Arenas/schools) are not booking any events due to COVID. WGI would normally already have released their 2021 schedule. 😔

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4 hours ago, Bandgeeks1 said:

Agreed.  NH on a stage is about as good as it gets in KY! I still prefer them also overall on a field but last year they didnt seem the same caliber I've always saw from them and I actually liked Lafayette better last year as a total package. I'm not ready to say if I think MC really sounds better or not before and after Barton. Jaggie is headed into his 4th year ( can we really count this year though lol) so even if they dont sound as good as a Barton band I think they are well on their way and I definitely prefer the Jaggie shows over the Barton shows.  But musically, NH is the clear winner for me ensemble wise in the state. 

I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat. 

i think North has a ver symphonic sound and they use their soloist very well and have amazing individual players. Lafayette has a more brassy sound their woodwinds play better as an ensemble and get more exposure in their shows. 
 

more or less I think it’s a lot less who’s better than who and more so what each person prefers. 
(I’m talking about on the field) 

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44 minutes ago, Saxophone2494 said:

I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat. 

i think North has a ver symphonic sound and they use their soloist very well and have amazing individual players. Lafayette has a more brassy sound their woodwinds play better as an ensemble and get more exposure in their shows. 
 

more or less I think it’s a lot less who’s better than who and more so what each person prefers. 
(I’m talking about on the field) 

Agree with the concept of each of them offering something that is worthy of being considered the best. My dream is to see the best of the best from our big 3 form an Allstar marching band, all 3 directors work together and see the awesomeness that would ensue😃

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56 minutes ago, Saxophone2494 said:

I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat. 

i think North has a ver symphonic sound and they use their soloist very well and have amazing individual players. Lafayette has a more brassy sound their woodwinds play better as an ensemble and get more exposure in their shows. 
 

more or less I think it’s a lot less who’s better than who and more so what each person prefers. 
(I’m talking about on the field) 

I agree. Both play extremely well. Just comes down to what you prefer. NH is very pretty/delicate whereas Lafayette brings the power. As a brass guy, I like a very powerful sound but I have counterparts that prefer a nice symphonic sound that NH brings. Neither is right or wrong. 
I think MC is more on the powerful brass side of things when it comes to their sound as well. 
 

I think the notion has been for the past several years that you have to have a sound like NH to be successful at at the national level. But Lafayette proved that to be wrong when they beat a GN finalist in Music and Music GE. This is also why I think MC will find success on the BOA level as well.

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17 hours ago, Brass33 said:

I’ve been saying for the past couple years that I think Jaggie’s bands sound better than Barton’s did.

Fake news. Depth of sound top to bottom, articulation clarity, woodwind tone and facility, ensemble cohesiveness all are areas with the MC marching band that are glaringly weaker in the years since Mr. Barton's departure. The differences on stage are even more noticeable.

20 hours ago, bdit said:

And yes, I’ve heard every one of these top ensembles. Nothing against any of them (although Mad Central is not the same caliber presently as they were under Barton).

Could not agree more. See previous comment.

18 hours ago, therightstuff said:

Barton was excellent but I would argue the band sounds better now than before he retired

Also fake news. See previous comment.

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3 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

Fake news. Depth of sound top to bottom, articulation clarity, woodwind tone and facility, ensemble cohesiveness all are areas with the MC marching band that are glaringly weaker in the years since Mr. Barton's departure. The differences on stage are even more noticeable.

Could not agree more. See previous comment.

Also fake news. See previous comment.

Thank you for being that person when the rest of us were not brave enough. 
 

But I totally agree with you I don’t think this band touches Barton’s sound right now. We’ve only seen 3 years and they have great moments in their sound but it’s not a consistently good caliber that Barton Gave us. 

 

but of course we got a lot of people who think big band=big sound=good sound. 🙃

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North Hardin is far superior. Hmmm

Looking at state finals in Jaggie’s only 2 years he competed with NH. 2017 tied in music performance 2018 MC won music performance. point is if the “state’s finest” can’t beat the Jaggie’s  “its not even close” band I’d say the news isn’t fake. Just presenting facts. Let the nh love fest defense begin.

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53 minutes ago, therightstuff said:

North Hardin is far superior. Hmmm

Looking at state finals in Jaggie’s only 2 years he competed with NH. 2017 tied in music performance 2018 MC won music performance. point is if the “state’s finest” can’t beat the Jaggie’s  “its not even close” band I’d say the news isn’t fake. Just presenting facts. Let the nh love fest defense begin.

Nice to see there is one other person on here that brings the facts. 

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The way I see it, NH, MC, and Lafayette represent 3 different types of bands.

North Hardin is the program with a really good marching band, but a concert program that’s arguably superior.

Madison Central really excels in marching band style playing, but their concert programs perhaps aren’t as good.

Lafayette is an equal balance of the two.

I feel like basically every band out there fits into one of these three categories, and I find it very cool that the top 3 of 5A really does show the gamut of what Kentucky offers. That’s just my take though.

Edited by trombobble
Rephrased some things

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12 hours ago, therightstuff said:

North Hardin is far superior. Hmmm

Looking at state finals in Jaggie’s only 2 years he competed with NH. 2017 tied in music performance 2018 MC won music performance. point is if the “state’s finest” can’t beat the Jaggie’s  “its not even close” band I’d say the news isn’t fake. Just presenting facts. Let the nh love fest defense begin.

You do understand it’s KMEA, yes? When MC garners the results NH and Laf have had at BOA Regionals/Supers/Grand Nats, then you can put them in the same sentence. Anyone know the last time MC made finals at a Regional??

Not saying they aren’t good, but it’s NOT the same level as the other two. It’s just not. And comparing anything to KMEA is just not smart. We are light years overall behind most states around us. Outside of Laf and NH, no other band in KY would make top 10 Class A finals in IN, and even they would be in the bottom 5. Again, jmo.

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1 hour ago, bdit said:

Not saying they aren’t good, but it’s NOT the same level as the other two. It’s just not. And comparing anything to KMEA is just not smart. We are light years overall behind most states around us. Outside of Laf and NH, no other band in KY would make top 10 Class A finals in IN, and even they would be in the bottom 5. Again, jmo.

I would put North Hardin in the same category as Ben Davis. I am not certain they'd would make finals in class A. I'd say Lafayette would be bottom 5 as well. 

 

HOWEVER, would North Hardin be a Class A band in Indiana? I doubt it. North Hardin could possibly win Class B. 

 

In the past members of this board complained about 5A on a regular basis--discussing the fairness of it. All I can really say is go look at Class A in Indiana. 

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8 hours ago, Mr Alligator said:

I am gonna drive my car into a wall 

Congrats. 

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Even though UIL is just “delaying” the season, many of the states groups are choosing to not participate in competitive fall marching band (including UIL competitions). Some of the state’s most well known programs such as Leander, Vandegrift, Vista Ridge, Rouse HS, Cedar Park, and Keller have come to this decision. 

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1 hour ago, Brass33 said:

Even though UIL is just “delaying” the season, many of the states groups are choosing to not participate in competitive fall marching band (including UIL competitions). Some of the state’s most well known programs such as Leander, Vandegrift, Vista Ridge, Rouse HS, Cedar Park, and Keller have come to this decision. 

Does UIL give them that option (I'm assuming they do)?; I always thought UIL told you what to do, not the other way around. Meaning, they are the governing body and here is what you are doing. I've always thought we should adopt a form of their rehearsal requirements for KMEA (no more than 8 hours rehearsal a week, etc. We have some directors that are rehearsing waaaayyyyy too much and using waaaaaaaayyyyy too many middle school students). 

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2 hours ago, bdit said:

Does UIL give them that option (I'm assuming they do)?; I always thought UIL told you what to do, not the other way around. Meaning, they are the governing body and here is what you are doing. I've always thought we should adopt a form of their rehearsal requirements for KMEA (no more than 8 hours rehearsal a week, etc. We have some directors that are rehearsing waaaayyyyy too much and using waaaaaaaayyyyy too many middle school students). 

I don't know the answer to that but I think it's a moot point anyway.  I'd bet the house that UIL will end up cancelling altogether.

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8 hours ago, bdit said:

Does UIL give them that option (I'm assuming they do)?; I always thought UIL told you what to do, not the other way around. Meaning, they are the governing body and here is what you are doing. I've always thought we should adopt a form of their rehearsal requirements for KMEA (no more than 8 hours rehearsal a week, etc. We have some directors that are rehearsing waaaayyyyy too much and using waaaaaaaayyyyy too many middle school students). 

It should be up to the programs director on how many middle schoolers they want to use. We now have a system that keeps them from "abusing" their class if they overgrow their "boundaries", and most of these schools have proven that their middle schoolers can indeed march and play. I don't see what the big deal is now that the class system has changed. Some of the most successful programs on the national level march middle schoolers. Most of the programs across the state rely on their middle schoolers to keep the marching band afloat because of retention at the upperclassmen level. Do we want more bands to leave KMEA, because this would be the way to do it. Lol.

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13 hours ago, Ben Dover said:

It should be up to the programs director on how many middle schoolers they want to use. We now have a system that keeps them from "abusing" their class if they overgrow their "boundaries", and most of these schools have proven that their middle schoolers can indeed march and play. I don't see what the big deal is now that the class system has changed. Some of the most successful programs on the national level march middle schoolers. Most of the programs across the state rely on their middle schoolers to keep the marching band afloat because of retention at the upperclassmen level. Do we want more bands to leave KMEA, because this would be the way to do it. Lol.

Wrong........we now have a system that will allow/cause directors to keep their numbers down so that they don’t jump up a class. There is zero incentive for growth.
 

I can deal with maybe a few middle schoolers, but if your band is 1/3 to 1/2 that (especially if you use any 7th graders), then u need to be looking in the mirror. Again, jmo.

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3 hours ago, bdit said:

Wrong........we now have a system that will allow/cause directors to keep their numbers down so that they don’t jump up a class. There is zero incentive for growth.
 

I can deal with maybe a few middle schoolers, but if your band is 1/3 to 1/2 that (especially if you use any 7th graders), then u need to be looking in the mirror. Again, jmo.

Because a third of finals didn't move up a class last year. People complained that the old class was allowing bands to "artificially" grow when those bands have proven that their middle schoolers can play and possibly win championships, and now people are complaining that the new system has zero incentive to grow. 

There's just no pleasing some people unless the powers that be ruin it for a third of the kids in some programs. I would suggest that anybody who complains about middle schoolers being in marching band to attend a rehearsal of one of these bands (with permission of course) who allow 7th and 8th graders to march. It would most certainly be eye opening and would probably change a lot of people's opinions on the matter. I, for one, was one of the 7th graders in my alma mater marching 6 years total, and I can not express how much it was beneficial to my musicianship in the first week of band camp. Learning to play much more difficult sheets pushed me so far in concert band in middle school.

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I always find the discussion about the use of middle school students in marching band interesting. Middle school students have marched in KMEA bands since the very first year of KMEA SMBC. Some very successful programs have years when 20% (or more) of the students on the field are middle schoolers. If the directors and parents believe these kids are mature enough to dedicate themselves to a season, then I'm not sure what the problem is. Assuming we get to march again in 2021, I suspect the percentage of middle school students asked to join will be higher than ever as bands look to rebuild. 

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^^^^^^totally agree...........but they shouldn’t. I look at some of these “perennial” finalists, and then I see they have maybe 10 or 12 seniors in their graduating class (attrition is to be expected, but......). Then some have zero students make the all-state bands. I think it all ties in, eventually. Are their exceptions? Absolutely.  I marched as an 8th grader. 
 

But I can tell you that directors from other states that have highly successful programs shake their heads at us. Again, this is all jmo. It’s perfectly fine to disagree w me.

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Pros and cons for having middle schoolers and the arguments presented all have made very valid points. Middle schoolers dont bother me for a multitude of reasons I'm sure nobody really cares about so I will just leave it at that lol. The 2021 season and rebuilding of programs intrigues for a reason a few of us have talked about privately. Programs will be basically dealing with 2 freshman classes next season. Some will be going into band camp with 2 classes that have never done band camp or marching season due to their programs opting not to march at all and even those programs that are still marching have mostly changed their shows to something that they wouldnt present in a contest just to give the kids some sort of season. We all know that the competitive band experience and the noncompetitive experience are totally different beasts so it will be interesting to see the quality of our groups next year as the kids and directors navigate that aspect let alone the prospect some of these groups havent had an actual ensemble class since March and some dont appear to be having any this semester either while being fully online. 2021 will be filled with new issues for groups. 

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Watching the KHSAA meeting. They’re moving towards not starting practices until August 24th. If we’re not allowing sports to have limited practices until the 24th, I don’t know how we can justify groups trying to have camps right now. Wonder if administrations will halt band activities.

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1 hour ago, Brass33 said:

Watching the KHSAA meeting. They’re moving towards not starting practices until August 24th. If we’re not allowing sports to have limited practices until the 24th, I don’t know how we can justify groups trying to have camps right now. Wonder if administrations will halt band activities.

Looks like they are making a plan to have a season........what a novel idea...........

Edited by bdit

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