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41 minutes ago, bdit said:

Looks like they are making a plan to have a season........what a novel idea...........

They kind of have to. Football is a revenue sport that brings in a ton of money to the schools (supposedly). 

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Football practice begins August 24
First games can be played September 11
Playoffs begin November 13/14
KHSAA State Championships December 11/12

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1 hour ago, The Stig said:

They kind of have to. Football is a revenue sport that brings in a ton of money to the schools (supposedly). 

They also approved competitive CHEER and DANCE to begin on August 24th!  That has nothing to do with revenue. That has to do with supporting and advocating the activity for which they govern.  If it has to be shut down it will be shut down by higher authorities and they understand that is still a possibility. However they are not going to shut themselves down!  Bravo for them, their boosters and participating students.  

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2 hours ago, The Stig said:

They kind of have to. Football is a revenue sport that brings in a ton of money to the schools (supposedly). 

I understand that.......but at least those seniors have the possibility. As I’ve stated previously, I’m going to have a very hard time looking at my students in November if they are expected to be doing “pep” band during the playoffs.

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Football is a revenue sport for the schools, but also for some bands. There are band boosters who run concessions for the football and basketball games. If you have good teams with lots of community support, you can pull in some nice cash.

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5 hours ago, bdit said:

I understand that.......but at least those seniors have the possibility. As I’ve stated previously, I’m going to have a very hard time looking at my students in November if they are expected to be doing “pep” band during the playoffs.

You should probably be doing pep band regardless as service to your school and community and be happy about it because it gives kids a chance to perform. Serving your school and community should always be a high priority. If not you may be in the wrong line of work. 

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8 minutes ago, theblowtorch said:

You should probably be doing pep band regardless as service to your school and community and be happy about it because it gives kids a chance to perform. Serving your school and community should always be a high priority. If not you may be in the wrong line of work. 

That’s not our purpose............my kids deserve the chance to compete just like everyone else. I refuse to become a football-only pep band this fall. My decision, not yours.

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2 hours ago, bdit said:

That’s not our purpose............my kids deserve the chance to compete just like everyone else. I refuse to become a football-only pep band this fall. My decision, not yours.

There's always the opportunity to tell your kids that you are disappointed. That you believe that they should have the opportunity to compete, also. But there's also an opportunity to show them how to make the best of bad situations - situations that you have no ability to modify. That supporting the rest of your school family is a worthy endeavor, despite your disappointment. That character is how you face disappointment, even more so than when you get everything you desire. That the bonds of your band can survive in the face of adversity. 

That might have more value than telling everyone to lump it because you are miffed. 

Or not. Your call. 

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I’m only “miffed” because we cancelled so quickly. My administration will want to know why, especially if we are playing football into November and December. And my parents will want to know why. I’m praying I get to hold on to my stipend. We took the easy way out. No contracts had been signed, and we could have easily pushed it down the road a little. You don’t want to participate? Fine......but some of us do.

There were some district reps that couldn’t wait to vote “no” to cancel (a few that have never been a HS director, and a few that had already been told by their admin that they couldn’t participate). Just trying to figure out how come everything else can potentially happen, but we cave (and I’m well aware this all could be a moot point if cases increase).

Totally respect your opinion, as long as your respect mine.

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6 minutes ago, bdit said:

I’m only “miffed” because we cancelled so quickly. My administration will want to know why, especially if we are playing football into November and December. And my parents will want to know why. I’m praying I get to hold on to my stipend. We took the easy way out. No contracts had been signed, and we could have easily pushed it down the road a little. You don’t want to participate? Fine......but some of us do.

There were some district reps that couldn’t wait to vote “no” to cancel (a few that have never been a HS director, and a few that had already been told by their admin that they couldn’t participate). Just trying to figure out how come everything else can potentially happen, but we cave (and I’m well aware this all could be a moot point if cases increase).

Totally respect your opinion, as long as your respect mine.

Have you considered that that’s on the people who have decided not to cancel football rather than the people who decided to cancel marching band? Just because one hasn’t cancelled yet doesn’t mean the others were too hasty. They might just be delaying the inevitable.

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21 minutes ago, bdit said:

I’m only “miffed” because we cancelled so quickly. My administration will want to know why, especially if we are playing football into November and December. And my parents will want to know why. I’m praying I get to hold on to my stipend. We took the easy way out. No contracts had been signed, and we could have easily pushed it down the road a little. You don’t want to participate? Fine......but some of us do.

There were some district reps that couldn’t wait to vote “no” to cancel (a few that have never been a HS director, and a few that had already been told by their admin that they couldn’t participate). Just trying to figure out how come everything else can potentially happen, but we cave (and I’m well aware this all could be a moot point if cases increase).

Totally respect your opinion, as long as your respect mine.

100% agree

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This is a tough o e because I agree with both Bdit and Longtimebandman. I would say if pep band is all the kids are able to do then I would let them do it and still voice my concerns to the administration etc. At the same time my memory would be long and the petty Betty in me would take my group and my money 3 hours away next season for a competition before I went to another directors competition that was closer but so blatantly voted against others wishes to serve their own self interest. 2020 just really sucks.

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First of all, I hope that football gets to have a season, because it will likely provide a performance outlet for bands.  But has anyone considered the thought that KHSAA is not doing this for the students, but for their own bottom line?  From what I've been told, without state football championships, the organization will go belly up financially.  I feel like they are kicking the can down the road, in hopes that things will get better.   Everyone wants to complain about KMEA shutting down SMBC so early, but within days of that decision, every pageantry arts organization in the region did the same...Mid States, ISSMA, BOA, CoC.....because it was the right thing to do.  I truly hope for the kids that they get to have fall sports...but if Major League Baseball, with all their money and resources, can't keep Covid out of their teams, do we really think we are going to see fall sports last?  And sports are different than band....most of sports teams expenses come from paying officials and buses, things that occur on a game to game basis.  Bands are paying a lot up front for design/staff/costuming, etc.  Plus, I don't know if anyone noticed, but KHSAA limited the sizes of teams...football is only allowed to have 60 participants per team to limit the number of students on campus from another school...and in sports, there is only one visiting team at a time, not 10+ like you might see at a band contest. 

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10 hours ago, bdit said:

I’m only “miffed” because we cancelled so quickly. My administration will want to know why, especially if we are playing football into November and December. And my parents will want to know why. I’m praying I get to hold on to my stipend. We took the easy way out. No contracts had been signed, and we could have easily pushed it down the road a little. You don’t want to participate? Fine......but some of us do.

There were some district reps that couldn’t wait to vote “no” to cancel (a few that have never been a HS director, and a few that had already been told by their admin that they couldn’t participate). Just trying to figure out how come everything else can potentially happen, but we cave (and I’m well aware this all could be a moot point if cases increase).

Totally respect your opinion, as long as your respect mine.

Does the KMEA have an actual monopoly on marching band competition in Kentucky?  My "KOMA" post below was obviously in jest.  But what is to stop bands that do wish to compete from creating a temporary circuit?  Or just hosting some competitions independently?  I'm not saying it's a good idea, but if you think competing should happen, then what's to stop you and a group of like-minded directors from putting something together, even if it's on a smaller scale?    

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10 hours ago, bdit said:

I’m only “miffed” because we cancelled so quickly. My administration will want to know why, especially if we are playing football into November and December. And my parents will want to know why. I’m praying I get to hold on to my stipend. We took the easy way out. No contracts had been signed, and we could have easily pushed it down the road a little. You don’t want to participate? Fine......but some of us do.

There were some district reps that couldn’t wait to vote “no” to cancel (a few that have never been a HS director, and a few that had already been told by their admin that they couldn’t participate). Just trying to figure out how come everything else can potentially happen, but we cave (and I’m well aware this all could be a moot point if cases increase).

Totally respect your opinion, as long as your respect mine.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely agree with you that we should have been able to have a marching season. I also believe that we should all be sending students back to school this year - with the exception of truly high risk households. We should continue to protect the vulnerable (e.g. nursing homes), and do obvious mitigations to delay the spread of the disease (i.e. masks). 

And it is a tough pill to swallow if you look at kids playing football and other contact sports while the activity we all love has been sidelined. But soooo much more goes into preparing for a marching season than, say, a football season. The logistics and expenses to hold a band competition which can easily hit 800+ students from 6-10 different counties versus a football game don't really compare. And let's face it, even if KMEA, BOA, MSBA, etc tried to hold a season, the state or even any one of several school districts can pull the plug on you at the last minute. Or even the event host might do the same. If you have an event scheduled this weekend at UofL, but their administrators declare the same week they are shutting down any group activities over 10 people, you're hosed. So, while I don't like it or even completely agree with it, I can accept it (not that I really have a choice 🤔😂). The only choices which now remain are how I conduct myself in the face of disappointment. 

There's nothing wrong with letting students know you're disappointed or angry. But it is a good learning opportunity to show them how to move forward with dignity in the face of hardship. 

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3 hours ago, molly said:

First of all, I hope that football gets to have a season, because it will likely provide a performance outlet for bands.  But has anyone considered the thought that KHSAA is not doing this for the students, but for their own bottom line?  From what I've been told, without state football championships, the organization will go belly up financially.  I feel like they are kicking the can down the road, in hopes that things will get better.   Everyone wants to complain about KMEA shutting down SMBC so early, but within days of that decision, every pageantry arts organization in the region did the same...Mid States, ISSMA, BOA, CoC.....because it was the right thing to do.  

You make some decent points, but you do understand that these circuits can’t continue if bands tell them “we’re dropping out,” or “my admin won’t let me.” My point is we have a section in KY that are looking at this as “hey, I get my Fall free and get all of my weekends back. And they are still going to pay me. My principal says we can’t participate, so I’m going to vote “no,” even though there are directors in my district that specifically told me they wanted to.” Many bands were railroaded due to the self-serving interest of others. It’s widely known and widely discussed. 
 

Wonder what would happen in KHSAA if all (or even half) of the teams said, “we’re not competing”?? Would they continue or cancel the season? Or does anybody know of any fall sports teams not competing or sitting out this Fall?

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Learning to play your instrument continues without a competitive outlet, but football doesn't really function without games.  They HAVE to attempt the season.

I do expect some districts to start saying "no sports here" and gradually, there will be some sad state playoffs with only half of the schools attending.  

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17 hours ago, bdit said:

That’s not our purpose............my kids deserve the chance to compete just like everyone else. I refuse to become a football-only pep band this fall. My decision, not yours.

Then you are in the wrong business. The purpose of music education has nothing to do with competition. Don’t complain next spring when your program gets cut because you refuse to serve your community and school. 
 

I’m also certain that any band director worth a penny would not be posting on a band forum arguing with mostly students and parents. 

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KHSAA can not survive without their championship events as this is their only source of income. They have a high overhead for staffing, event management, etc. KHSAA will kick the can down the road as long as possible. The vote yesterday doesn’t mean much as they have to submit a plan to the governor’s office and department of public health for approval. 

KMEA can survive a year without the SMBC. KMEA has a much smaller staff and receives income from other sources- membership dues, program dues, registrations, etc. KMEA also has a substantial emergency fund. 
 

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54 minutes ago, theblowtorch said:

Then you are in the wrong business. The purpose of music education has nothing to do with competition. Don’t complain next spring when your program gets cut because you refuse to serve your community and school. 
 

I’m also certain that any band director worth a penny would not be posting on a band forum arguing with mostly students and parents. 

Someone has to educate these new teachers coming out, because it’s certainly not the universities in my area. Most of the ones that are coming out or student-teaching are either coat-tail riders or just flat out lazy. 

And you have no idea what my credentials are......plenty of fake accounts on here 😎. And not sure where you get that I’m “arguing.” Just stating my opinions. I can also guarantee you that our (see, it doesn’t belong to me) program will not get cut either next year, or the year after that. My admin is fully behind us and our students.

Anyone else also notice how the vote yesterday was 17-0 in favor of keeping hopes alive? Looks like they all went to vote for the best interests of their students. All we did was vote to bail on ours.

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1 hour ago, theblowtorch said:

Then you are in the wrong business. The purpose of music education has nothing to do with competition. Don’t complain next spring when your program gets cut because you refuse to serve your community and school. 
 

I’m also certain that any band director worth a penny would not be posting on a band forum arguing with mostly students and parents. 

For students who want to participate in competitive marching band, music education has everything to do with competition.  That's certainly not the case for all.  But many kids are interested in competing, and competitive marching band draws them in.  They might not show up without it.  Which means they never get exposed to the other aspects of music education.  I'm not a music educator, just giving you an outsider perspective.  Something that's probably needed from time to time.

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18 minutes ago, bdit said:

Someone has to educate these new teachers coming out, because it’s certainly not the universities in my area. Most of the ones that are coming out or student-teaching are either coat-tail riders or just flat out lazy. 

And you have no idea what my credentials are......plenty of fake accounts on here 😎. And not sure where you get that I’m “arguing.” Just stating my opinions. I can also guarantee you that our (see, it doesn’t belong to me) program will not get cut either next year, or the year after that. My admin is fully behind us and our students.

Anyone else also notice how the vote yesterday was 17-0 in favor of keeping hopes alive? Looks like they all went to vote for the best interests of their students. All we did was vote to bail on ours.

My account is not fake. Of course, if I was saying the crazy things that bdit is, I would create a fake account as well. 

Z

Not lazy.

 

Edited by MikeZ
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20 minutes ago, bdit said:

Someone has to educate these new teachers coming out, because it’s certainly not the universities in my area. Most of the ones that are coming out or student-teaching are either coat-tail riders or just flat out lazy. 

And you have no idea what my credentials are......plenty of fake accounts on here 😎. And not sure where you get that I’m “arguing.” Just stating my opinions. I can also guarantee you that our (see, it doesn’t belong to me) program will not get cut either next year, or the year after that. My admin is fully behind us and our students.

Anyone else also notice how the vote yesterday was 17-0 in favor of keeping hopes alive? Looks like they all went to vote for the best interests of their students. All we did was vote to bail on ours.

I feel terrible for your kids. It’s clear they are not receiving an appropriate, well rounded music education, and are in band for all the wrong reasons. How many of your former students play their horns in adulthood? How many participate in a collegiate ensemble (major or non-major)? How many current students pursue outside opportunities such as all state band, summer music camps, youth orchestra, private lessons, etc? How many freshman graduate the program 4 years later?  I would be willing to wager those numbers are sad and pathetic. 
 

In your world band ends in October. What do you do from November to June? Beat more marching band music into the kids? Probably. 
 

The various KMEA committees voted to protect the health and safety of our students and communities. They 100% made the correct decision. 
 

All state auditions will be held in a virtual manner in 2020-21. This is also the correct decision for our students.

 

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You are totally and unequivocally missing my points, and twisting them to fit your agenda. You’ll vote for Biden, and I’ll vote for Trump. It’s all good 😁.

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On 7/28/2020 at 2:41 PM, East Carter '87 said:

Football is a revenue sport for the schools, but also for some bands. There are band boosters who run concessions for the football and basketball games. If you have good teams with lots of community support, you can pull in some nice cash.

For my school it seems like maybe 1/3 of the fans in the stands are band parents. If no marching band, football game ticket sales will likely go down.

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