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BenL

Recruitment Ideas

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10 hours ago, KMEA Commenter said:

This seems like...overthinking.  In any event, if the high school director does not think of the middle school program as an important feeder of potential future participants (which the high school program needs to survive), they are less likely to support the program, are they not?

Plus, if the middle school program is getting support from the high school director, but it isn't serving as a good feeder program in return, isn't that by definition a toxic, one-way relationship?

There's a difference between a high school program recognizing the importance of an associated middle school program, and treating the middle school program as a "feeder." There is no obligation to serve as "a good feeder." Any teacher's obligation is to teach the students they have. 

 

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6 hours ago, tubadude62 said:

There's a difference between a high school program recognizing the importance of an associated middle school program, and treating the middle school program as a "feeder." There is no obligation to serve as "a good feeder." Any teacher's obligation is to teach the students they have. 

 

It is absolutely your obligation to serve as a "good feeder." I know of many places where people have been reassigned or let go because they weren't on board with the total vision. Those of us that have been around for a while know exactly what I'm referring to. Have that kind of attitude at a place like Carmel or Lafayette, and see how long you last. It may work at a place where the expectations are low, but that's about it.

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People understand that PART of the middle school band program's role is to create musicians for the high school band.  It's just that term "feeder" reduces the program to that single role.  Over a beer at the bar later, I figure the Carmel and Broken Arrow staff might call the middle schools in the district the "feeders", but I would be surprised if it is ever in print.  Is it listed that way on the website?  Maybe?

What if Dr. Schallert started calling Bowling Green HS & Greenwood HIS feeders?

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1 hour ago, JuliusKorngold said:

People understand that PART of the middle school band program's role is to create musicians for the high school band.  It's just that term "feeder" reduces the program to that single role.  Over a beer at the bar later, I figure the Carmel and Broken Arrow staff might call the middle schools in the district the "feeders", but I would be surprised if it is ever in print.  Is it listed that way on the website?  Maybe?

What if Dr. Schallert started calling Bowling Green HS & Greenwood HIS feeders?

This whole conversation started because we were told by an intrepid message board poster not to refer to middle school programs as "feeders"....on an online marching band message board.  Which frankly is the marching band community equivalent of talking about it "over a beer at the bar" (minus the beer, sadly). 

Nobody here is suggesting that middle school programs be formally renamed the "______ Middle School Feeder Band" or that "Feeder" be printed on the middle school's Christmas Concert program.    

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3 hours ago, bdit said:

It is absolutely your obligation to serve as a "good feeder." I know of many places where people have been reassigned or let go because they weren't on board with the total vision. Those of us that have been around for a while know exactly what I'm referring to. Have that kind of attitude at a place like Carmel or Lafayette, and see how long you last. It may work at a place where the expectations are low, but that's about it.

Expectations at healthy, comprehensive programs are set with the input of all teachers. Subjugating middle school teachers to, basically, a means to an end, isn't good for the students. It's only beneficial to the high school teacher. 

The middle school teacher doesn't work for the high school teacher, nor are they obligated to a vision which doesn't serve the best interests of the students they are teaching. This is not the same as any teacher failing in teaching their students to be quality musicians. 

If the attitude of a high school director is for a teacher to get on board or else, that's not a place worth working at. There are plenty of successful programs in the country that promote a positive workplace environment which puts the interests of students first. 

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4 hours ago, JuliusKorngold said:

People understand that PART of the middle school band program's role is to create musicians for the high school band.  It's just that term "feeder" reduces the program to that single role.  Over a beer at the bar later, I figure the Carmel and Broken Arrow staff might call the middle schools in the district the "feeders", but I would be surprised if it is ever in print.  Is it listed that way on the website?  Maybe?

What if Dr. Schallert started calling Bowling Green HS & Greenwood HIS feeders?

A school system hierarchy is set up for lower levels to feed into the higher level of school. That part is pretty simple to understand. However, a middle school band's purpose is not necessarily meant to be nothing more than a feeder. It is to provide (in many school systems) an opportunity to introduce instrumental music to students in a  group activity. From there, the student (or their parents) decide if it is best for the student to continue to the high school level. Calling a middle school band nothing but a feeder for the high school is an insult toward the middle school band program. 

In a lot of places, these two programs are separate--meaning the MS director isn't necessarily the assistant to the high school and vice versa. Daviess County is that way at last glance. However, with team teaching you do see some high school directors have time to go work with the middle school program and there is some collaboration between the two schools on curriculum. If a school system is blessed enough to have more than one director at a school, recruiting does become easier because you have a face to go along with the program. 

The purpose of this thread was to give ideas to a situation of where a band director is at their respective schools for the majority of the day, and NOT what the purpose of the middle school is and what we should call it. It helps immensely to have positive relationships with those people and with the rest of your colleagues (you never know when a student might be transferring in from another district). 

With all of that, the biggest thing is to be visual to the public. A director must be good at selling their program. You do that with public and private performances. Set up performances for every school that feeds into you--including the elementary schools. Do what you can to do some collaboration with the lower level students. Playing SSB at a football game is one way to get them involved. 

Being involved is the most likely way to get more students. How you do that is up to your imagination. 

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20 hours ago, tubadude62 said:

Expectations at healthy, comprehensive programs are set with the input of all teachers. Subjugating middle school teachers to, basically, a means to an end, isn't good for the students. It's only beneficial to the high school teacher. 

The middle school teacher doesn't work for the high school teacher, nor are they obligated to a vision which doesn't serve the best interests of the students they are teaching. This is not the same as any teacher failing in teaching their students to be quality musicians. 

If the attitude of a high school director is for a teacher to get on board or else, that's not a place worth working at. There are plenty of successful programs in the country that promote a positive workplace environment which puts the interests of students first. 

We can respectfully agree to disagree; For our program, every director is on the same page or they won't work here for very long. Each one understands their job description, which is they are to work with the HS band and assist (included in their stipend). The HS directors do the same and assist at the MS (we are assigned to one of our MS each morning). You are not allowed to pick and choose what you do and don't want to do (i.e. "I just want to teach MS and go home at 2:45"). We all cover for each other when one has to be out of the building, etc, we all share the same curriculum, and our MS collaborate with each other so that when our 8th graders enter the HS, they are all on basically equal footing. That means that the HS directors don't have to spend time and go back and re-teach things that they should already have been taught. They know their scales, rhythm studies, how to sit, etc. I don't have a part of my freshmen that are "with it" from one MS, then another group of freshmen that are way behind. And then I have to spend a bulk of the class time explaining how we do things. It's worked tremendously well.

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52 minutes ago, bdit said:

We can respectfully agree to disagree; For our program, every director is on the same page or they won't work here for very long. Each one understands their job description, which is they are to work with the HS band and assist (included in their stipend). The HS directors do the same and assist at the MS (we are assigned to one of our MS each morning). You are not allowed to pick and choose what you do and don't want to do (i.e. "I just want to teach MS and go home at 2:45"). We all cover for each other when one has to be out of the building, etc, we all share the same curriculum, and our MS collaborate with each other so that when our 8th graders enter the HS, they are all on basically equal footing. That means that the HS directors don't have to spend time and go back and re-teach things that they should already have been taught. They know their scales, rhythm studies, how to sit, etc. I don't have a part of my freshmen that are "with it" from one MS, then another group of freshmen that are way behind. And then I have to spend a bulk of the class time explaining how we do things. It's worked tremendously well.

Similar to learning pre-algebra in middle school, so that you are ready to learn Algebra 1 when you get to high school.  

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On 9/15/2020 at 10:58 AM, KMEA Commenter said:

Nobody here is suggesting that middle school programs be formally renamed the "______ Middle School Feeder Band" or that "Feeder" be printed on the middle school's Christmas Concert program.    

Not to stir the pot, but Louisville Male's (old) website actually lists Jefferson County Traditional and Barret Traditional as their "feeder schools" 😓

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11 minutes ago, Fred Rogers said:

Not to stir the pot, but Louisville Male's (old) website actually lists Jefferson County Traditional and Barret Traditional as their "feeder schools" 😓

Off with their heads!  A mere courtroom trial will not do.  They must be brought before a military tribunal.  I will accept nothing less for the use of such egregious terminology.

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On 9/14/2020 at 8:33 AM, JuliusKorngold said:

Just throwing this out there, not trying to be a jerk.  Can we stop referring to middle school programs as "feeders"?  There's a bunch of reasons why, but try to grow past that.

While I totally understand your logic and reasoning. 1. I don't call them middle schools because two are k-8 so for clarification within my school and district they know what we are referencing when we say feeder school, k-8 school, parochial school or when we say middle school. 2. My athletic director and other coaches refer to their middle school teams as feeder programs. So this is language ive recently adapted to using, coming from a county with 1 HS and 1 MS.

It is also not to discredit the work that theyre doing because i recognize theyre separate entities. Truthfully, I'd rather teach middle school students. Middle school is my passion and id love to find the right position. So don't mistake my context of reducing them down to a single role. Im fully aware that is but one function. 

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9 hours ago, bdit said:

We can respectfully agree to disagree; For our program, every director is on the same page or they won't work here for very long. Each one understands their job description, which is they are to work with the HS band and assist (included in their stipend). The HS directors do the same and assist at the MS (we are assigned to one of our MS each morning). You are not allowed to pick and choose what you do and don't want to do (i.e. "I just want to teach MS and go home at 2:45"). We all cover for each other when one has to be out of the building, etc, we all share the same curriculum, and our MS collaborate with each other so that when our 8th graders enter the HS, they are all on basically equal footing. That means that the HS directors don't have to spend time and go back and re-teach things that they should already have been taught. They know their scales, rhythm studies, how to sit, etc. I don't have a part of my freshmen that are "with it" from one MS, then another group of freshmen that are way behind. And then I have to spend a bulk of the class time explaining how we do things. It's worked tremendously well.

And, I don't think any of us are saying those things shouldn't be taught at every level. It would be a total abdication on the part of any teacher not to.

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