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Going into 2021 just wondering.... do we still consider Lafayette, Adair, Bourbon, North Hardin and Madison Central as the cream of the crop in Kentucky High School Marching band?  Has anyone else jumped into that group? Beechwood maybe? Murray and Estill knocking on the door?Anyone you see approaching that status?  Once upon a time PLD had put themselves in that group but not so sure that is the case now.  I really do not think much has changed over the years.  I think when you see those 5 on a Saturday contest roster they are still considered the standard of the activity in Kentucky. Give me your thoughts. We need something to discuss the next few months!

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I think Harrison might be a stretch at this point. Although they have 5 state championships they have not finished higher than 3rd since 2004 and have only been n finals 6 times since then. Anderson County has 1 state championship which in my opinion does not put them in elite status just yet! When compared to the big 5 these do not seem to be qualify to me. Good programs and Anderson is on top of their game right now for sure but still need to build some history.  Just my opinion!

 

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10 minutes ago, The Boxer said:

I think Harrison might be a stretch at this point. Although they have 5 state championships they have not finished higher than 3rd since 2004 and have only been n finals 6 times since then. Anderson County has 1 state championship which in my opinion does not put them in elite status just yet! When compared to the big 5 these do not seem to be qualify to me. Good programs and Anderson is on top of their game right now for sure but still need to build some history.  Just my opinion!

 

Anderson and Harrison have both taken down some big names over the course of the last few years. That, to me, qualifies them for this list. How you finish does mean something, but how you get there also means something. The list I provided are the top performing bands in the state. Murray only has 2 state championships, but you mentioned them in your original post.

Edited by Ben Dover
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I think in this case it’s a difference of what you see on paper versus what you experience. 
 

on paper the 2 top tier bands are Adair and Lafayette. Both being tied for the most finals appearances and also both holding the longest current winning streak. And then you also have Murray, Bourbon, and beechwood all appearing in finals for the last 15+ years with some wins under their belts. Beechwood won more state titles in the 2010s than any other program, not to mention an impressively high Grand Nationals placement. Madison Central doesn’t have the finals streak those bands have but they have some impressive wins. And if we’re looking at it this way you could say North Hardin isn’t a top dog at all. They missed finals in 2011, beat a relatively weak PLD and MC and got 4th for a couple years and never could break 2nd after that.

Of course we know that’s not the case because if we change the perspective to what we experience you would know that Adair has had a couple of rough years that were pulled together literally in the final moments. Lafayette gave us a big scare mid decade. North Hardin has put out some spectacular shows. And so on. I don’t think back in 2010 anyone questioned bourbon county because they had been in finals 6 years and only won twice...

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19 hours ago, Ben Dover said:

Anderson and Harrison have both taken down some big names over the course of the last few years. That, to me, qualifies them for this list. How you finish does mean something, but how you get there also means something. The list I provided are the top performing bands in the state. Murray only has 2 state championships, but you mentioned them in your original post.

Harrison will need to prove they still belong under their new direction, which I don't think really produced at the previous 2 stops (and didn't stay long at either). If they come out swinging, then I'll be a believer.

We have Lafayette, then NH slightly below. Then the next group is on a lower tier, and pretty much all equal (Adair, Bourbon, Anderson); then below them  you would have Beechwood, maybe Murray and Russell County (who has been somewhat inconsistent the last few years), and Mad Central (until they produce at BOA regional events, this is where they are. Some of you all need to get over the "size" thing). I'm afraid Dunbar is off the list for the time being. And I know I left off a few. Face it, our state as a whole is struggling mightily. Again, jmo

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4 hours ago, bdit said:

Harrison will need to prove they still belong under their new direction, which I don't think really produced at the previous 2 stops (and didn't stay long at either). If they come out swinging, then I'll be a believer.

We have Lafayette, then NH slightly below. Then the next group is on a lower tier, and pretty much all equal (Adair, Bourbon, Anderson); then below them  you would have Beechwood, maybe Murray and Russell County (who has been somewhat inconsistent the last few years), and Mad Central (until they produce at BOA regional events, this is where they are. Some of you all need to get over the "size" thing). I'm afraid Dunbar is off the list for the time being. And I know I left off a few. Face it, our state as a whole is struggling mightily. Again, jmo

I feel like we could make two different lists. One based on current performance quality, and the other based on a programs place in history. The two would definitely look different.

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Based off the consistencies and wins of the the last 10 years I would list it as

1- Lafayette 

2- Bourbon 

3- Adair 

4- Madison Central

5- North Hardin 

6- Beechwood

7- Anderson 

8- Russell county

9- Madisonville 

10- Murray

 

based off what we saw in 2017-19

1- Lafayette

2- North Hardin 

3- Madison Central

4- Bourbon

5- Anderson 

6- Adair

7- Estill

8- Murray

9- Harrison

10- Beechwood 

 

up and comers:

South Laurel (the program we should all keep an eye on imho)

Glasgow 

Taylor

Ryle  

 

 

 

Edited by Saxophone2494
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Based of off the last 10 years...

  1. Lafayette 
  2. Adair County
  3. Bourbon County
  4. North Hardin
  5. Madison Central
  6.  Beechwood
  7. Anderson County
  8. Russell County
  9. Madisonville North-Hopkins
  10. Murray

Honorable mentions

Glasgow
South Laurel
Taylor County
 

Based off of the history of the SMBC...

  1. Adair County
  2. Lafayette
  3. North Hardin
  4. Harrison County
  5. Paul Laurence Dunbar
  6. Madison Central
  7. Bourbon County
  8. Beechwood
  9. Murray
  10. Madisonville North-Hopkins

Honorable mentions...

Hazard
Nicholas County
Russell County
George Rogers Clark

 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Ben Dover said:

Based of off the last 10 years...

  1. Lafayette 
  2. Adair County
  3. Bourbon County
  4. North Hardin
  5. Madison Central
  6.  Beechwood
  7. Anderson County
  8. Russell County
  9. Madisonville North-Hopkins
  10. Murray

Honorable mentions

Glasgow
South Laurel
Taylor County
 

Based off of the history of the SMBC...

  1. Adair County
  2. Lafayette
  3. North Hardin
  4. Harrison County
  5. Paul Laurence Dunbar
  6. Madison Central
  7. Bourbon County
  8. Beechwood
  9. Murray
  10. Madisonville North-Hopkins

Honorable mentions...

Hazard
Nicholas County
Russell County
George Rogers Clark

 

Based off of history it is s hard to decide what to do with North Hardin! We all know they are a top 3 program but they have only won 3 state championships and not 1 since 1990!  Is that not hard to believe?!?!?  I would have also swapped Harrison and Bourbon probably and had Madisonville higher.  I mean they have 10 class championships!

Edited by The Boxer
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42 minutes ago, The Boxer said:

Based off of history it is s hard to decide what to do with North Hardin! We all know they are a top 3 program but they have only won 3 state championships and not 1 since 1990!  Is that not hard to believe?!?!?  I would have also swapped Harrison and Bourbon probably and had Madisonville higher.  I mean they have 10 class championships!

North Hardin was extremely hard to place, but I placed them based on consistency, regardless of championship. As for Bourbon and Harrison, Bourbon only has 15 finals appearances, all of which have appeared since 2005, and while they have 7 championships and 6, they are only recent. Harrison County on the other hand has had 22 state finals appearances, 15 consecutive, 5 championships, and 8 second place finishes. This is all based off of both of their respected history pages on KyBand. Madisonville on the other hand, while they have 22 finals appearances and 10 championships, they were also during years that they honestly had no one to compete against them until the latter part of their reign, and it took a class change overhaul for them to pull it off, prior to which they were consistently between 4th and 7th place. There was a lot of thought that went into my list, to say the least. Lol.

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10 minutes ago, Ben Dover said:

North Hardin was extremely hard to place, but I placed them based on consistency, regardless of championship. As for Bourbon and Harrison, Bourbon only has 15 finals appearances, all of which have appeared since 2005, and while they have 7 championships and 6, they are only recent. Harrison County on the other hand has had 22 state finals appearances, 15 consecutive, 5 championships, and 8 second place finishes. This is all based off of both of their respected history pages on KyBand. Madisonville on the other hand, while they have 22 finals appearances and 10 championships, they were also during years that they honestly had no one to compete against them until the latter part of their reign, and it took a class change overhaul for them to pull it off, prior to which they were consistently between 4th and 7th place. There was a lot of thought that went into my list, to say the least. Lol.

Sure I get it! Thats s why I haven't put together my list yet! Have not had time to put thought into it!

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15 minutes ago, The Boxer said:

Sure I get it! Thats s why I haven't put together my list yet! Have not had time to put thought into it!

Good luck, it wasn't easy by any means. Lol.

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If we’re doing it based off of the entire history of KMEA I’ve decided to look at the numbers on KYband.com (great website) and these are my picks... with reasoning... 

1:Adair- 34 finals appearances in all 4 decades (80s, 90s, 00s, 10s) 24 titles throughout all 4 decades (the only one to do so) lowest placement is 3rd, lowest score is 84.5 highest score is 96.11

2: Lafayette- 34 finals appearances, 21 titles throughout the 90s 00s and 10s. Lowest placement was 4th. Lowest score is 88.3, east highest score is 97.25 

3: North Hardin- 26 finals appearances in all 4 decades. Only 3 wins but has always been top 8 with their lowest placement being 8th. Lowest score is 82.5. Highest score is 95.71

4:PLD- 27 finals appearances. 7 wins throughout the 3 decades of their existence (started in 1990) lowest placement was 11th lowest score is 81.95 highest score is 96.75

5: Madisonville North Hopkins-  22 finals appearances in all 4 decades (no they did not just start being relevant after the class change) 10 wins, lowest placement being 9th. Lowest score being 69.5, highest score being 89.59.

6: Harrison- 22 finals appearances again in all 4 decades. 5 wins. Lowest placement was 9th at quarterfinals. Lowest score is 65.1, highest score is 96.35

7: Beechwood- 22 finals appearances throughout SMbC history. 9 wins... lowest placement is 14th. Lowest score is 74.35, highest score is 90.75

8: Madison Central- 22 finals appearances, 5 wins. Lowest placement is 19th at semis (before the creation of quarterfinals) lowest score is 62.5. highest score is 94.75

9:Hazard- shocked? You shouldn’t be... 19 finals appearances (all 4 decades) , 3 wins. Lowest placement is 9th at semis. Lowest score is 73.7. Highest score is 92.1 

10: Murray or Glasgow (I can’t decide.)

Murray- 18 finals appearances (all 4 decades) 2 wins. Lowest placement is 11th at quarterfinals. Lowest score is 70.8 highest score is 87.35
Glasgow- 11 finals appearances throughout history, 4 wins. Lowest placement  is 18th (pre quarterfinals) lowest score is  70.6. Highest score is 90.98. 
 

Why No Bourbon? 
although Bourbon has done impressive things their history doesn’t line up the same way these programs do. Back when you had to qualify for SMbC, Bourbon Didn’t qualify until 1997 and didn’t have a top 8 finish till 1999 and missed finals all but one year prior to 2005. 
 

Why is Madison Central so low? 
the 90s... 

I made this list because I wanted to share the information. the placement and inclusion/exclusion is all my opinion of what “historically good” program means. I’m not trying to put down any programs and actually learned a lot of cool stuff about these and other programs while researching it. 

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6 minutes ago, Saxophone2494 said:

If we’re doing it based off of the entire history of KMEA I’ve decided to look at the numbers on KYband.com (great website) and these are my picks... with reasoning... 

1:Adair- 34 finals appearances in all 4 decades (80s, 90s, 00s, 10s) 24 titles throughout all 4 decades (the only one to do so) lowest placement is 3rd, lowest score is 84.5 highest score is 96.11

2: Lafayette- 34 finals appearances, 21 titles throughout the 90s 00s and 10s. Lowest placement was 4th. Lowest score is 88.3, east highest score is 97.25 

3: North Hardin- 26 finals appearances in all 4 decades. Only 3 wins but has always been top 8 with their lowest placement being 8th. Lowest score is 82.5. Highest score is 95.71

4:PLD- 27 finals appearances. 7 wins throughout the 3 decades of their existence (started in 1990) lowest placement was 11th lowest score is 81.95 highest score is 96.75

5: Madisonville North Hopkins-  22 finals appearances in all 4 decades (no they did not just start being relevant after the class change) 10 wins, lowest placement being 9th. Lowest score being 69.5, highest score being 89.59.

6: Harrison- 22 finals appearances again in all 4 decades. 5 wins. Lowest placement was 9th at quarterfinals. Lowest score is 65.1, highest score is 96.35

7: Beechwood- 22 finals appearances throughout SMbC history. 9 wins... lowest placement is 14th. Lowest score is 74.35, highest score is 90.75

8: Madison Central- 22 finals appearances, 5 wins. Lowest placement is 19th at semis (before the creation of quarterfinals) lowest score is 62.5. highest score is 94.75

9:Hazard- shocked? You shouldn’t be... 19 finals appearances (all 4 decades) , 3 wins. Lowest placement is 9th at semis. Lowest score is 73.7. Highest score is 92.1 

10: Murray or Glasgow (I can’t decide.)

Murray- 18 finals appearances (all 4 decades) 2 wins. Lowest placement is 11th at quarterfinals. Lowest score is 70.8 highest score is 87.35
Glasgow- 11 finals appearances throughout history, 4 wins. Lowest placement  is 18th (pre quarterfinals) lowest score is  70.6. Highest score is 90.98. 
 

Why No Bourbon? 
although Bourbon has done impressive things their history doesn’t line up the same way these programs do. Back when you had to qualify for SMbC, Bourbon Didn’t qualify until 1997 and didn’t have a top 8 finish till 1999 and missed finals all but one year prior to 2005. 
 

Why is Madison Central so low? 
the 90s... 

I made this list because I wanted to share the information. the placement and inclusion/exclusion is all my opinion of what “historically good” program means. I’m not trying to put down any programs and actually learned a lot of cool stuff about these and other programs while researching it. 

Murray would be the obvious choice based on the information you have laid out for us peasants, you God among information seekers. #Facts

Must have taken HOURS to go through everything. My question is, you added in highest and lowest scores. Did this factor into your decision making as well?

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15 minutes ago, Ben Dover said:

Murray would be the obvious choice based on the information you have laid out for us peasants, you God among information seekers. #Facts

Must have taken HOURS to go through everything. My question is, you added in highest and lowest scores. Did this factor into your decision making as well?

Yes and no. I mostly looked at consistency spanning SMBC history. The scoring kind of helped me place bands. Like Madison Central stayed relevant in the 90s but also had a few bad years with very low placements and scores. Which is why they’re so low. I tried to keep bands in somewhat of an order of their median score but of course they didn’t all fall in that exact order. 
 

it would’ve been easier if I had kept to a system like that but I took a lot into consideration.  I will say I had trouble placing them and go back and fourth on a few. Like Lafayette and Adair. On paper Adair has more accomplishments but if you look at score you see that Lafayette has a higher average quality so you could say Lafayette is the number one.. You could also argue that PLD and North should swap. PLD has a low placement and score lower than North’s but PLD has more titles  And has participated all the years they have existed (not to be shady). I also had trouble with MNHHS and Harrison. MNHHS is the more consistent but Harrison also holds one of the highest scores. 
 

I was happy to put Hazard on the list and thought about excluding them since they’re not around anymore. But they had an impressive record and I knew it would make us all a little bit happier to see them talked about. 

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12 hours ago, Saxophone2494 said:

Yes and no. I mostly looked at consistency spanning SMBC history. The scoring kind of helped me place bands. Like Madison Central stayed relevant in the 90s but also had a few bad years with very low placements and scores. Which is why they’re so low. I tried to keep bands in somewhat of an order of their median score but of course they didn’t all fall in that exact order. 
 

it would’ve been easier if I had kept to a system like that but I took a lot into consideration.  I will say I had trouble placing them and go back and fourth on a few. Like Lafayette and Adair. On paper Adair has more accomplishments but if you look at score you see that Lafayette has a higher average quality so you could say Lafayette is the number one.. You could also argue that PLD and North should swap. PLD has a low placement and score lower than North’s but PLD has more titles  And has participated all the years they have existed (not to be shady). I also had trouble with MNHHS and Harrison. MNHHS is the more consistent but Harrison also holds one of the highest scores. 
 

I was happy to put Hazard on the list and thought about excluding them since they’re not around anymore. But they had an impressive record and I knew it would make us all a little bit happier to see them talked about. 

Personally I probably would have had Lafayette ahead of Adair, but I can definitely see where they would flip flop and why you placed Adair ahead of Lafayette. Even though it's based on KMEA, Adair has had a lot more success outside of KMEA than Lafayette. 

Throw shade, it's what makes it fun around here, because at the end of the day I think we can all agree that none of it is malicious. North Hardin dropping out in the early 2000s and again in 2019 should definitely have some effect because it breaks the consistency in the SMBC. 

Seeing Hazard made me very happy, and I hope that they will be able to compete once more this decade so that they can continue their streak of making finals in every decade. I just hope that their new director can try to continue Pauletta Smiths work.

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  • 1 month later...

At this point I think you have to put Dunbar ahead of North Hardin. If you throw out their very first year when they were 2A and had like 30 players on the field then you get a better sense of how they have done.  Never below 5th place, totally stole North's director, more finals, and did the impossible (at the time) of unseating Lafayette.  Most first year schools don't even compete at all, but the next year they were state champions.

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Well since I started this topic I should probably now give my top 10!

1. Adair- I just cant really see anyway to put anyone above them. 

2. Lafayette- A very very strong 2nd and almost 1A

3. North Hardin- Don't have the state championships to ship for it but outside of that top 3 for sure. 

4. PLD- Would have been higher 5 years ago.

5. Madison Central-Probably top 3 in the last 20 years. 

6. Beechwood- Just a very consistent championship level over the last 30 years.

7. Madisonville- Still a prominent name but has lost some of its pizzaz!

8. Bourbon County- Keep climbing an soon to be top 5

9. Harrison County- Slipping downward fast

10.Murray- Lots of history over the years! 

 

Honorable Mention: GRC, Hazard, Estill, Glasgow, S. Laurel, Garrard County, 

 

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10 hours ago, The Boxer said:

Well since I started this topic I should probably now give my top 10!

1. Adair- I just cant really see anyway to put anyone above them. 

2. Lafayette- A very very strong 2nd and almost 1A

3. North Hardin- Don't have the state championships to ship for it but outside of that top 3 for sure. 

4. PLD- Would have been higher 5 years ago.

5. Madison Central-Probably top 3 in the last 20 years. 

6. Beechwood- Just a very consistent championship level over the last 30 years.

7. Madisonville- Still a prominent name but has lost some of its pizzaz!

8. Bourbon County- Keep climbing an soon to be top 5

9. Harrison County- Slipping downward fast

10.Murray- Lots of history over the years! 

 

Honorable Mention: GRC, Hazard, Estill, Glasgow, S. Laurel, Garrard County, 

 

Madisonville is a tough one. I can’t decide if they’ve actually gone down hill or if they’re just back to being in a class that can compete with them like they were pre 2005. 

There are some Madville shows from their ten year reign that I think would have a hard time breaking into finals in 4A these last few years. But there’s also a few I think could still walk away with a title even over big boys like Bourbon. 
 

the jury is out on Harrison county. I’m not sure what to expect from them. 

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10 hours ago, Saxophone2494 said:

Madisonville is a tough one. I can’t decide if they’ve actually gone down hill or if they’re just back to being in a class that can compete with them like they were pre 2005. 

There are some Madville shows from their ten year reign that I think would have a hard time breaking into finals in 4A these last few years. But there’s also a few I think could still walk away with a title even over big boys like Bourbon. 
 

the jury is out on Harrison county. I’m not sure what to expect from them. 

Totally agree on both accounts! North Hardin, Madisonville, Harrison and even Bourbon all tough to place. 

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