[Tim]

I'm not trying to say anything in particular with this post, and I fully acknowledge that the numbers on KHSAA's enrollment charts may be different from what the participant schools turned in to KMEA. However, there are a few big discrepancies between this list and the list KMEA went with, discrepancies that are bigger than just a few transfers or drop-outs or whatnot. It makes me scratch my head. Anyway, I included the numbers for you. The first is '08-'09, the second is '09-'10, and the third is the average between the two.

Henry Clay 2133 2168 2140.5
Eastern 2126 2151 2138.5
Paul Laurence Dunbar 2127 2118 2122.5
Lafayette 2015 1964 1989.5
Bryan Station 1862 1923 1892.5
Shelby County 1783 1856 1819.5
Madison Central 1740 1755 1747.5
Central Hardin 1701 1754 1727.5
Greenwood 1668 1701 1684.5
Daviess County 1676 1648 1662
Tates Creek 1670 1644 1657
George Rogers Clark 1642 1662 1652
Meade County 1541 1532 1536.5
Nelson County 1574 1490 1532
Muhlenberg CountY -- 1439 1439
Marshall County 1430 1435 1432.5
Graves County 1388 1366 1377
Dixie Heights 1354 1393 1373.5
Apollo 1391 1350 1370.5
North Hardin 1346 1383 1364.5
North Laurel 1329 1381 1355
South Laurel 1309 1322 1315.5
Christian County 1316 1314 1315
Grayson County 1282 1306 1294
Montgomery County 1274 1247 1260.5

Woodford County 1237 1278 1257.5
Anderson County 1252 1218 1235
Bullitt East 1208 1224 1216
John Hardin 1250 1149 1199.5
Ohio County 1198 1155 1176.5
South Oldham 1180 1173 1176.5
Pulaski County 1158 1183 1170.5
Grant County 1125 1120 1122.5
Lincoln County 1126 1118 1122
Warren Central 1123 1095 1109
Logan County 1106 1103 1104.5
East Jessamine 1106 1089 1097.5
Madison Southern 1043 1046 1044.5
West Jessamine 1026 1028 1027
Hopkinsville 1024 1030 1027
Clay County 1035 995 1015
Hopkins County Central 1025 979 1002
Perry County Central 1004 1000 1002
Madisonville-North Hopkins 979 1023 1001
Mercer County 996 998 997
Knox Central 997 967 982
Owensboro 976 990 983
Marion County 983 980 981.5
Calloway County 974 984 979

Harrison County 967 949 958
Allen County-Scottsville 980 902 941
Warren East 916 936 926
Boyle County 903 907 905
Lone Oak 873 924 898.5
Rowan County 907 883 895
Franklin-Simpson 885 895 890
North Oldham 853 900 876.5
Rockcastle County 870 869 869.5
Breckinridge County 861 874 868.5
Taylor County 849 883 866
Russell County 847 857 852
Bourbon County 823 819 821
Holmes 838 789 813.5
Bell County 794 807 800.5
Highlands 794 780 787
Mason County 793 776 784.5
Adair County 783 779 781
Garrard County 754 763 758.5
Lawrence County 784 726 755
LaRue County 757 728 742.5
Corbin 711 763 737
Estill County 741 729 735
Hart County 739 727 733
Elizabethtown 719 743 731
East Ridge 716 731 723.5

Powell County 720 721 720.5
Lewis County 711 719 715
Henry County 681 677 679
Union County 688 658 673
Edmonson County 654 672 663
Webster County 673 642 657.5
Sheldon Clark 672 637 654.5
Trigg County 673 633 653
Morgan County 668 632 650
Lloyd Memorial 657 605 631
Russell 652 649 650.5
Christian Academy of Louisville 634 637 635.5
Caldwell County 623 626 624.5
Monroe County 628 601 614.5
Shelby Valley 606 587 596.5
Washington County 600 582 591
Butler County 593 573 583
Todd County Central 552 580 566
Carroll County 565 563 564
Glasgow 545 557 551
Green County 548 548 548
Danville 537 537 537
Reidland 546 505 525.5
Newport 535 505 520
Hancock County 536 489 512.5
Middlesboro 497 503 500

Metcalfe County 503 485 494
McLean County 507 476 491.5
Murray 478 460 469
Lexington Christian Academy 473 446 459.5
Owensboro Catholic 437 433 435
Crittenden County 414 408 411
Ballard Memorial 424 389 406.5
Mayfield 393 368 380.5
Nicholas County 376 363 369.5
Beechwood 326 342 334
Lee County 331 330 330.5
Lyon County 323 309 316
Raceland-Worthington 316 312 314
Cumberland County 310 316 313
Hazard 312 293 302.5
Russellville 309 301 305
Ludlow 300 300 300
Campbellsville 311 268 289.5
Dayton 277 271 274
Williamstown 238 246 242
Bellevue 248 233 240.5
Caverna 236 235 235.5
Harlan 233 238 235.5
Pineville 218 207 212.5
Paris 209 215 212
Dawson Springs 185 209 197

This post has been edited by Tim: 20 July 2010 - 05:58 PM

[marching rules]

Interesting...

[Tim]

Can schools still petition to compete in a larger class than the one they're put into? That's about the only thing I can come up with that would explain it.

This post has been edited by Tim: 20 July 2010 - 06:32 PM

[Chaunticleer]

Tim, on 20 July 2010 - 07:31 PM, said:

Can schools still petition to compete in a larger class than the one they're put into? That's about the only thing I can come up with that would explain it.

That was the case under the old system, but I don't believe it's possible now. Adair is the only band I can think of that actually did this in the band-size era (which raises an interesting question: were there other bands that did this?), I doubt anyone would do it now.

My guess is that KMEA and KHSAA have different rules regarding how numbers are reported. Many schools have a variety auxiliary facilities, alternative schools, institutes, magnet programs, etc. that might be reported under one set of rules and not another.

[blatant honesty]

I remember when Owensboro Catholic had about 800 students in their schools. No one can make a mistake in Daviess County on where to send their kids to school.

[Jason Shelby]

Here is the source of the discrepancy:

You have used the average of the '08-'09 and 09'-'10 school years, but KMEA would have set classes for the '09 season based on the averages of '07-'08 and '08-'09'... the '09-'10 numbers would not yet have been available in August.

Or, to say it another way, KMEA uses the average of the 2 previous years, not the average of the previous year and current year.

Or, that's how it was explained to me.

As for marching up a class under the old (bad) classfication system: the rule was that you could always choose to do so at any given contest, but if you intended to compete at state in Class AA, then you had to get a distinguished in that class at some contest. Consequently, you had many band who quickly got a Distinguished in their 'real' class, but then chose to compete up at various contests to gain some perceived competitive advantage... or just to go on later at night.

As far as I know, the only group that chose to compete up a class at State, was Adair.

Right now, no one can choose to go up. You stay where you're put.

[bigbandfan]

Jason Shelby, on 20 July 2010 - 10:26 PM, said:

Here is the source of the discrepancy:

You have used the average of the '08-'09 and 09'-'10 school years, but KMEA would have set classes for the '09 season based on the averages of '07-'08 and '08-'09'... the '09-'10 numbers would not yet have been available in August.

Or, to say it another way, KMEA uses the average of the 2 previous years, not the average of the previous year and current year.

Or, that's how it was explained to me.

As for marching up a class under the old (bad) classfication system: the rule was that you could always choose to do so at any given contest, but if you intended to compete at state in Class AA, then you had to get a distinguished in that class at some contest. Consequently, you had many band who quickly got a Distinguished in their 'real' class, but then chose to compete up at various contests to gain some perceived competitive advantage... or just to go on later at night.

As far as I know, the only group that chose to compete up a class at State, was Adair.

Right now, no one can choose to go up. You stay where you're put.

I think there was one year in the late 80's when Lafayette(and also maybe GRC)competed in AAAA at state even though they had fewer than 88 playing members, which was the cutoff for AAAA back then (this cutoff was changed to 80 players around 1989).

[Tim]

Jason Shelby, on 20 July 2010 - 10:26 PM, said:

Here is the source of the discrepancy:

You have used the average of the '08-'09 and 09'-'10 school years, but KMEA would have set classes for the '09 season based on the averages of '07-'08 and '08-'09'... the '09-'10 numbers would not yet have been available in August.

Or, to say it another way, KMEA uses the average of the 2 previous years, not the average of the previous year and current year.

Or, that's how it was explained to me.

So, if the same schools and only those same schools who registered last year do so again this year, then this is what the classes would look like?

[Jason Shelby]

Tim, on 20 July 2010 - 10:55 PM, said:

So, if the same schools and only those same schools who registered last year do so again this year, then this is what the classes would look like?

Yes... but, of course, those are two very big 'ifs.'

[Owensboro Catholic]

blatant honesty, on 20 July 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

I remember when Owensboro Catholic had about 800 students in their schools. No one can make a mistake in Daviess County on where to send their kids to school.

Wow! All I can say is Daviess County is full of great schools and Owensboro Catholic is one of them. You must be an "old hater" because our school has not had 800 people since the 1980s. There are numerous reasons for the lower enrollment through the years...however, the numbers in the lower grades are increasing. Owensboro Catholic is a great school with great people who work hard to keep things going. This is my fifteeth year as band director here and we support all of the other bands and schools in our area!

This topic is about numbers and classes...

Ed Hauser
Owensboro Catholic Band Director

[Chris.]

The first thing that came to my mind when Mr. Shelby made his statement about the two previous years being used, rather than the two years current, was, "Holy crap, John Hardin's in 4A."

[Kaitlyn]

Chris., on 21 July 2010 - 11:37 AM, said:

The first thing that came to my mind when Mr. Shelby made his statement about the two previous years being used, rather than the two years current, was, "Holy crap, John Hardin's in 4A."

Ditto.

[Chris.]

We find out in ten days.

[Tim]

And, also, despite the rumors, Lloyd Memorial is firmly in AA, barring any drastic changes lol.

[fimbar the flute]

not to be critical or anything, but did you include highschool grades that may be seperated? For example, on the last school enrollment list we saw on the boards mercer had the enrollment for the senior highschool (grades 10-12) as seperate as the enrollment for the 9th grade academy, but both when dividing up classes they combined the enrollments for a "Mercer County High School" total. That could effect some of those bands placements as well

[DUSTnTHAwind]

Good lord, this must've taken some time. I would like to see something similiar to this, but done by band sizes. Just for the heck of it.

[Tim]

Just so you know, the average for the combined enrollments of Lone Oak, Heath, and Reidland High Schools was 2,060 in '08-'09, and 2,056 in '09-'10, which puts them ahead of Lafayette and in the top five most populous schools in the state. So at least two schools, maybe more, will be pushed from AAAAA to AAAA, and from AAAA to AAA in 2012 when it opens.

[deepblu]

Another difference could be that KMEA takes the AVERAGE DAILY ATTENDANCE that is reported to KDE for the second month of school - not the actual enrollment. Maybe KHSAA takes the actual school enrollment? Looking at the numbers and knowing my school population, that looks like the discrepancy.

[marching rules]

Tim, on 22 July 2010 - 12:14 AM, said:

Just so you know, the average for the combined enrollments of Lone Oak, Heath, and Reidland High Schools was 2,060 in '08-'09, and 2,056 in '09-'10, which puts them ahead of Lafayette and in the top five most populous schools in the state. So at least two schools, maybe more, will be pushed from AAAAA to AAAA, and from AAAA to AAA in 2012 when it opens.

Thats going to be interesting to see who is going to get moved around.

[DUSTnTHAwind]

marching rules, on 22 July 2010 - 09:37 PM, said:

Thats going to be interesting to see who is going to get moved around.

I know, It will definately shake things up a bit.

[Tim]

My prediction is that John Hardin and Grayson County will be bumped down and Montgomery County will be bumped back down if they were in AAAAA, though I'm not completely sure because school populations change very often.

[M.Ross]

I hate bumping, but when do we actually find out?

[They're better than you]

MuchRazl, on 02 August 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

I hate bumping, but when do we actually find out?

Usually we find out in the beginning of August. So, hopefully soon.

[theblowtorch]

Today was the deadline for paperwork at the KMEA office. I'm sure the classification list will leak out in a day or two.

[Max Power]

Last I heard there were two or three more bands that turned in Paperwork from last year...