[VKPRPHAN]

About 2 or so years, I think I started a thread about what schools march Marching tubas. Who/ how many march them now. I know Barren co., Ohio co., Murray, Central Hardin do. Who else does? It seems as I look at the pictures from last season that more and more schools are switching to them.

[DUSTnTHAwind]

VKPRPHAN, on 24 July 2010 - 12:21 AM, said:

About 2 or so years, I think I started a thread about what schools march Marching tubas. Who/ how many march them now. I know Barren co., Ohio co., Murray, Central Hardin do. Who else does? It seems as I look at the pictures from last season that more and more schools are switching to them.

Being a Contra fan, I notice them first thing. I know that Cumberland are using them, Muhlenberg South used them until the merge, Green Co uses them, hmm... lots of schools are using them know, I just can't name them off the top of my head.

[Chris.]

Contras are the best thing since sliced bread. With that being said, I think Centerville uses them as well. I know that's not Kentucky, but they're close and big.

[DUSTnTHAwind]

Chris., on 24 July 2010 - 06:06 AM, said:

Contras are the best thing since sliced bread. With that being said, I think Centerville uses them as well. I know that's not Kentucky, but they're close and big.

I agree! I just wish that more of the larger bands in Kentucky would use them. I think it would be awesome to see Lafayette or Dunbar play contras instead of Sousas. There is just something about Contras that make me feel good inside lol.

I hope to see more of them around.

[quackylowbrass]

DUSTnTHAwind, on 24 July 2010 - 10:39 AM, said:

I think it would be awesome to see Lafayette or Dunbar play contras instead of Sousas.

I respectfully disagree.
Sousas and trombones ftw.

[Jason Shelby]

As noted above, we do. But I don't think there's anything wrong with sousas. There's a pretty good argument to be made that a high quality sousa actually sounds better than most shoulder cannons.

[DUSTnTHAwind]

quackylowbrass, on 24 July 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

I respectfully disagree.
Sousas and trombones ftw.

Jason Shelby, on 24 July 2010 - 09:55 AM, said:

As noted above, we do. But I don't think there's anything wrong with sousas. There's a pretty good argument to be made that a high quality sousa actually sounds better than most shoulder cannons.

lol, I don't know why, but I cracked up laughing when I read "shoulder cannons". Man...

I have to agree with you and Quacky though, Sousa's do have a nice dark and rich sound that a Contra simply cannot reproduce. I have played both in my time, however I simply 'like' the contra more because it was more fun to play. It was much more of a challenge then the sousa was. NOT saying that the sousa is easy because its not at all.

[randommusicgeek]

I think Contras look awesome and whenever I see a band with them I notice it right away!

Question though, are Sousa's better for the body? I would think a Contra would be REALLY painful! lol

ETA: slightly off topic, but I'm always sad to see bands that don't march trombones anymore

This post has been edited by randommusicgeek: 24 July 2010 - 10:28 AM

[Jason Shelby]

randommusicgeek, on 24 July 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

I think Contras look awesome and whenever I see a band with them I notice it right away!

Question though, are Sousa's better for the body? I would think a Contra would be REALLY painful! lol

ETA: slightly off topic, but I'm always sad to see bands that don't march trombones anymore

Sousas are definitely easier to get used to, and are more forgiving for the player who may not be in the best of shape.

Contras could potentially be very bad for the back if you marched them incorrectly, bending backwards at the waist and putting huge stress on the lower back. If you're doing it correctly, however, the weight is supposed to be carried with the arms when at the position of 'carry,' not the back, and when you're in playing position it should be balanced over the entire column of the body evenly. The same thing, by the way, is true of marching baritones: done correctly they present few concerns, done incorrectly, they can cause back problems.

That's why I wish all directors and instructors paid close attention to how their big horns are holding the instrument. Just because the bell is up doesn't mean they're doing it right, and they could be hurting themselves.

As for trombones, I miss them, too. However, there's no getting around it: switching all your players over to baris for the season is the fastest way to increase your overall ensemble volume. I don't like it, but it's true.

[Chris.]

That, and pitch accuracy ftw.

[randommusicgeek]

Jason Shelby, on 24 July 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

As for trombones, I miss them, too. However, there's no getting around it: switching all your players over to baris for the season is the fastest way to increase your overall ensemble volume. I don't like it, but it's true.

I didn't even think about volume! I figured directors got away from trombones because of their length - hard to do a tight pass through, etc.

[quackylowbrass]

randommusicgeek, on 24 July 2010 - 01:21 PM, said:

I didn't even think about volume! I figured directors got away from trombones because of their length - hard to do a tight pass through, etc.

Volume shouldn't be a concern, really. Worried about not contributing to ensemble sound? Psh
Drill can be tricky, but isn't hard to work with.
Plus, the distinctive timbre and color of the trombone sound is not replaceable, it's a good zing.

Also, agreed on all tuba points.

[DUSTnTHAwind]

randommusicgeek, on 24 July 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

I think Contras look awesome and whenever I see a band with them I notice it right away!

Question though, are Sousa's better for the body? I would think a Contra would be REALLY painful! lol

ETA: slightly off topic, but I'm always sad to see bands that don't march trombones anymore

Contras are indeed very sharp. They make a band look more professional, IMO.

It all depends on your body type. When I marched Sousas, It hurt my back and shoulder. Just something about the constant pressure on my shoulder that I didn't agree with. When we switched to Contras, It was incredibly hard and I had a black and blue shoulder for weeks. The constant slamming the contra to your shoulder to get it up to playing position in time is really difficult if your not used to it. Also, holding the contra out for long periods of time CORRECTLY is really difficult as well, unless you have large forearms. If you do not have large muscles in the arm, I promise you that after a season of marching Contra, you will have plenty of muscle =). It also depends on the style of Contra your band marches. At M. South, we had a type of contra with lots of piping that ran along the bell of the contra. If you look at DCI style contras there is a large space between the back of the contra and the piping. Each style is held differently. Its hard to explain.

Jason Shelby, on 24 July 2010 - 10:42 AM, said:

Sousas are definitely easier to get used to, and are more forgiving for the player who may not be in the best of shape.

Contras could potentially be very bad for the back if you marched them incorrectly, bending backwards at the waist and putting huge stress on the lower back. If you're doing it correctly, however, the weight is supposed to be carried with the arms when at the position of 'carry,' not the back, and when you're in playing position it should be balanced over the entire column of the body evenly. The same thing, by the way, is true of marching baritones: done correctly they present few concerns, done incorrectly, they can cause back problems.

That's why I wish all directors and instructors paid close attention to how their big horns are holding the instrument. Just because the bell is up doesn't mean they're doing it right, and they could be hurting themselves.

As for trombones, I miss them, too. However, there's no getting around it: switching all your players over to baris for the season is the fastest way to increase your overall ensemble volume. I don't like it, but it's true.

Your exactly right. No pressure should be placed on the back if you properly handle the contra. Trombones are awesome and I miss playing them. I'm glad that Mberg still uses them... for now. I'm sure before long, trombones will be obsolete in the marching event. They'll probably be stuck to the sideline with the front ensemble for solo's only. We will see.

[Jason Shelby]

For years I resisted the change to all baritones. For years I argued it wouldn't make us any louder. Then we did it... and instantly got much louder.

So, hey, I wish it wasn't true. I love trombones, but only a fool argues with experimental evidence.

[MikeZ]

Jason Shelby, on 24 July 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

For years I resisted the change to all baritones. For years I argued it wouldn't make us any louder. Then we did it... and instantly got much louder.

So, hey, I wish it wasn't true. I love trombones, but only a fool argues with experimental evidence.

If I remember correctly, there were a few months there where you were resisting the change to "marching" baritone as well. Luckily you toughed it out, and the rest is history. Can you imagine how different our lives would be if the horn had won?

Z
Holding a bariton/euphonium is the only thing I have been truly GREAT at.

[Jason Shelby]

Oh, no joke dude... that thing kicked my butt for a while. Chrome plated, G bugle, monstrosity... I missed my trombone terribly.

[DUSTnTHAwind]

Jason Shelby, on 24 July 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:

Oh, no joke dude... that thing kicked my butt for a while. Chrome plated, G bugle, monstrosity... I missed my trombone terribly.

I always thought that marching baritones would be hard to use, and I was a Contra player. It takes pure arm strength to play the marching baritone. Atleast contra players get to rest somewhat when they are in playing position.

[Max Power]

Jason Shelby, on 24 July 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

For years I resisted the change to all baritones. For years I argued it wouldn't make us any louder. Then we did it... and instantly got much louder.

So, hey, I wish it wasn't true. I love trombones, but only a fool argues with experimental evidence.

I don't know that I've noticed much change in volume, but the one major advantage I found after finally "making the switch" was I didn't have to spend a full week of band camp teaching rookies the proper slide positions so that we could actually play a Bb scale without my ears bleeding.

You wouldn't think so many variations of 1st position would be possible....

[DUSTnTHAwind]

Nuckophobia, on 25 July 2010 - 12:52 AM, said:

I don't know that I've noticed much change in volume, but the one major advantage I found after finally "making the switch" was I didn't have to spend a full week of band camp teaching rookies the proper slide positions so that we could actually play a Bb scale without my ears bleeding.

You wouldn't think so many variations of 1st position would be possible....

I know lol. That always annoyed me back when I was in band.

[Jason Shelby]

Well, here's the thing about the volume issue.

You can play very, very loudly on a trombone, of course. But, since it's a cylindrical bore instrument, you can quickly 'fill' the instrument and your tone starts to become harsh and gross past a certain point. A baritone or euphonium is conical, meaning that it can take more air before becoming 'full' because it simply has a greater volume.

So, to be more precise, my argument is that it is possible to play louder with nice tone quality on a baritone.

Of course, I'm more of a visual guy than a music guy, so it's possible I don't really understand the physics of the thing.

[DUSTnTHAwind]

Jason Shelby, on 25 July 2010 - 09:26 AM, said:

Well, here's the thing about the volume issue.

You can play very, very loudly on a trombone, of course. But, since it's a cylindrical bore instrument, you can quickly 'fill' the instrument and your tone starts to become harsh and gross past a certain point. A baritone or euphonium is conical, meaning that it can take more air before becoming 'full' because it simply has a greater volume.

So, to be more precise, my argument is that it is possible to play louder with nice tone quality on a baritone.

Of course, I'm more of a visual guy than a music guy, so it's possible I don't really understand the physics of the thing.

No, I agree with you completely. I know that when I played trombone, it was really easy to blat your notes if you tried to play loud. It honestly takes a decently skilled trombone player to play with decent sound quality when playing louder notes.


I see what your saying in other words, and I agree.

[randommusicgeek]

Can I just say that volume as the reason for switching out trombones kind of worries me? I say this because I'm a woodwind player. I add a beautiful color to the ensemble (maybe not be personally haha), but if volume is really what you want, I guess give me a trumpet or put us all on bari sax LOL

Btw, thanks for all the explanations about the weight distribution and everything! They were all very helpful and made a lot of sense.

This post has been edited by randommusicgeek: 25 July 2010 - 05:34 PM

[M.Ross]

Tarpon Springs definitely had the best trombones in the nation for a loonnngggg while IMO. I think trombones (though blatty) add an certain kind of edge to a marching band.

This post has been edited by MuchRazl: 25 July 2010 - 06:02 PM

[quackylowbrass]

DUSTnTHAwind, on 25 July 2010 - 05:07 PM, said:

It honestly takes a decently skilled trombone player to play with decent sound quality when playing louder notes.

That's why when you hear a good trombone section, like Lafayette, you appreciate it.

[bigbandfan]

I've noticed the Sousaphone/contra thing has come full circle. When I was in high school and college band in the '80's, you saw contras almost exclusively in Kentucky. At that time I thought Sousaphones were becoming obsolete. For some reason, beginning in 1988, many high school bands in Kentucky switched back to Sousaphones. I remember Lafayette, North Hardin, and Adair all made the switch to Sousas in '88. Over the next few years, most Kentucky bands switched to Sousas. Now, in just the last 5 years or so, we're seeing several bands, such as the ones named upthread, going back to contras. When you start getting older, you see a lot of things in life going in cycles.